2035

[19Walt93]

It's worth trying to reduce emissions but we can't do it alone. Right now China has over 2000 coal fired power plants and in excess off 1000 more under construction. Biden's "climate czar", John Kerry owns a fleet of private jets that he flies around on. I suspect commercial airlines fly everywhere he goes- but he'd have to ride with the common people. Want ever vehicle to get about 5% more fuel mileage? Get the alcohol out of our gas. It takes more energy to create a gallon of alcohol than it produces, the only reason it's in our gas is political.

 

[Uncle Gump]

What about cow emissions vs automobile emissions?

Oh that's right... that's coming too.

Better fill your deli drawer like I do...

It's coming too... no beef for you.

 

[sgtsandman]

I can see if now..........................

2035 add in auto trader:
For sale 2020 Tesla Coyote V8 conversion, runs on gas or alcohol
Trunk in the rear as God intended

Wonder why we have seen these yet?

Horses had a good run 2,000+ years, pun intended
ICE is going on 125 years, probably at least 75 more years left
Electric 24 years and counting, Ranger EV 1998

Politicians say what they need to to get elected or stay elected, lower taxes and more spending, lol
Government is politicians, so................

You can't change what others do, or don't do
If you want to recycle or go electric or "lower your carbon footprint", then do it, what your neighbours, or other countries do, shouldn't effect your decisions, that's like letting someone else run your life

Technology will advance and it is often a good thing. I hope you gentlemen are right and the EV will be ready for prime time and will be able to replace most vehicles, if not all by then with little to no compromise in the switch or function. Right now, based on the EV history, technology has been the limiting factor for as long as the horseless carriage has been around. They have come a long way for sure. I feel they have a long way to go before they are ready. I'm not sure 12-13 years is enough time.

As far as trying to take care of the environment, I'm for it. I take the steps that I can to help that along. We have to live, breathe, drink, and eat in it after all. In some ways, I think we were doing some things better in to 70's and 80's with glass bottles and paper bags as an example. Too many plastics are just not recycle able or at least the refuse companies won't take it. In other ways, we are doing better now than we were then. New isn't always better but that isn't to say that old is always better either. There has to be a balance, more logic, and less political agenda and feelings.

 

[sgtsandman]

What about cow emissions vs automobile emissions?

Oh that's right... that's coming too.

Better fill your deli drawer like I do...

View attachment 81352

It's coming too... no beef for you.

Some are pushing bugs instead. Our digestive systems aren't designed to handle chitin and there some other issues with that.

 

[Roert42]

I work in the industry that creates single use plastic wrappers/ bags.

I can fill a 20 yard dumpster with empty plastic bags in a few hours doing “tests”.

The industry is going towards recycled plastic material and compostable material.

I promise, they will not be realistic for use on 90% of products for at least 10 years. The tech is not there.

Virgin, single use plastic is the bees knees for high quality plastic bags.

You want a good shelf life, this is the hat you get.

 

[stmitch]

So I should buy a worn out POS hybrid and take up knitting... got it.

You aren't talking to rusty... I said I was on board with a hybrid. I'm not even opposed to full electric if it will fit my needs.

Right. You said you wanted to spend $20k-35k on a brand new Maverick, but you're also worried about the price of a gallon of gas getting to be too much. I'm not sure those two things line up well. You can buy a lot of expensive fuel for the price of a new vehicle, sales tax, and increased registration and insurance costs. If you're open to hybrids, then I have good news: this regulation allows for new Plug-In hybrids to continue to be sold! If you're open to EVs, but don't feel like they're quite right for your specific situation yet, then I have good news: they'll have tons more development by the time this mandate kicks in!

To review your posts:
You're supportive of hybrids. You're supportive of EVs and hope to have one that you feel fits your needs one day. You're supportive of buying new vehicles. You're supportive of making changes to benefit the environment. Why aren't you supportive of this mandate again? It seems like it's full of lots of things that you claim to support.

I will just reiterate what I've already said. Nobody is forcing you to buy an EV. Nobody is forcing you to get rid of what you've got (or what you may have by the time 2035 rolls around. Even within California (the only place this mandate currently covers), you'll be able to buy new PHEVs with an ICE, and fuels for a very long time after the mandate kicks in. If you can afford to buy a new vehicle, then I'm not sure why a potential increase in fuel costs really concerns you because it's a much smaller impact on your pocket, and it's easy to take steps to reduce the impact that fuel prices have on you anyway.

 

[stmitch]

Technology will advance and it is often a good thing. I hope you gentlemen are right and the EV will be ready for prime time and will be able to replace most vehicles, if not all by then with little to no compromise in the switch or function. Right now, based on the EV history, technology has been the limiting factor for as long as the horseless carriage has been around. They have come a long way for sure. I feel they have a long way to go before they are ready. I'm not sure 12-13 years is enough time.

This mandate will allow Plug-In hybrids to continue to be sold. If we're close to 2035, and they still don't have good enough batteries or fuel cells to handle extreme cases like towing or crazy long range then the OEMs will be able to just continue to make and sell hybrid versions of ICEs. So, EVs don't have to be ready to handle every single job in 12-13 years. They just want everything that's new to have some amount of electric range. Even if you can't plug your PHEV in, it will still work like a regular hybrid. That's not ideal, but it's better than where we're at right now.
And if you're staunchly against anything with a plug, you can continue to drive your older stuff. It may cost more than it does right now, or be a bit less convenient, but it will likely be less expensive than buying a new vehicle. Keeping your old beater going is probably better environmentally than being responsible for manufacturing a new EV or PHEV anyway. At least with current materials and manufacturing methods.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

What you're describing is not possible. In order to get electrical power from the rear wheels, they have to be spun by the friction from the road. Assuming no efficiency loss anywhere in the process, the best possible case is breaking even. What you suggest is a variation on the perpetual motion concept.

It isn't that complicated...

Half of that doesn't make sense. Boosted and forced induction are synonymous and require very specific controls to reduce emissions produced under high compression. They probably were confused by your question.

We are talking about emissions here. There's no urban or rural bubbles. This affects everyone. Ozone from ICE engines in urban areas blows downwind and can have an impact on agriculture and forests hundreds of miles away. Changes to the climate affect people all over the world. The real issue is you, and many other people don't like it. I like cars and trucks, so I don't like it either. But, I have enough formal education in meteorology and atmosphic science to know what the potential impact is going to be if things don't change.

Two years ago coming back from the roundup we could actually see the line in the sky from the smoke from wildfires as we go back under the dome. I don't remember if it was fires in Kansas, California, Colorado or Canada but this was in the middle of Illinois. You can see the line just up the horizon in my mirror. It was refreshing to get out of the haze as we had been in it for quite awhile in SW Iowa.



The sun on the way out not far from our house. I took some crazy pictures with my camera of the sun that year with no special equipment, I could see sunspots with my little PNS camera.



Anywho... the bubble thing.

Different sort of bubble but very real. This nails it:

They are more interested in pushing the agenda than look at things from a realistic and practical perspective. People from the city, much like politicians think what is appropriate for them is appropriate for everyone and everyone must have what they think they should.

I can see if now..........................

2035 add in auto trader:
For sale 2020 Tesla Coyote V8 conversion, runs on gas or alcohol
Trunk in the rear as God intended

Wonder why we have seen these yet?

Welcome to last year...

World’s First V8-Swapped Tesla Model S Is Officially on the Road

It took about a year, but no one said it'd be easy.

www.thedrive.com

 

[rubydist]

I'd like to thank all of the previous posters for providing me multiple LOL moments reading through this thread.

Reality has a nasty habit of sneaking up and biting dreamers in the rear end. That is what I predict will happen in this case in CA. The reason is very simple. CA does not have enough electricity to run things consistently now, and if all these new vehicles are suddenly electric, the demand for electric power will increase significantly. Most of that new demand will be at night. The sun doesn't shine at night, and the wind is typically a lot lower at night, so the "we'll just build more renewable energy generators" theory doesn't hold up. [People will be running portable generators (bought second-hand from NV and OR because you won't be able to buy new ones in CA) to not only charge their electric cars, but also make their computers connect to the internet and run the air conditioner.] 100% of the power plants (non-renewable) built in the last 10 years are natural gas powered, because that is the only existing technology that can ramp up and down the output quickly enough to mesh with renewable energy (which is notoriously unpredictable). So even if they manage to provide enough additional power generation to recharge all these new electric vehicles, they are not significantly reducing our dependence on fossil fuel, they are just pushing the need further upstream.

The objective reality is that electric vehicles are great for urban use, for vehicles that are used less than 200 miles per day (which is by far most vehicles). And the range of 250-300 miles is not really the issue - most people cannot sit in their car for more than 5-6 hours straight anyway, so having to "refuel" that often is not a real problem. The real problem is that it takes ~1.5 hours to "fast charge" the electric vehicle. Yes, this will come down some as technology gets better, but the rules of physics are not subject to dreamers and the fact is there is a limit to how fast one can charge a battery without it destructing (in sometimes spectacular fashion). Fast charging is also detrimental to the battery life and capacity. So for the urban areas, electric vehicles are totally functional. Its just that CA (outside of the major cities) and much of the US is widely spread out and electric vehicles are not the solution there because of unacceptable recharge times.

But the idea that electric vehicles will reduce our carbon footprint is not grounded in reality. The mining, refining and manufacturing of the various materials used to make the big batteries is very hard on the environment, and a lot of those materials are primarily located in places like China that are not necessarily our friends, and there is a more finite amount of those materials than there is of oil. Objective reality is that the total carbon footprint of manufacturing a battery pack today is equivalent to driving a ICE engine vehicle for 20 years. At this point, there is no viable recycling method for the used battery packs. Most of these battery packs will not last nearly 20 years, so its truly harder on the environment to build electric vehicles than it is to build ICE vehicles.

At some point reality will set in. The question I have is how much pain will be inflicted before that happens.

 

[RonD]

That V8 Tesla is very very cool, would be better with a Ford engine but still cool
No never read about that being done

 

[rumblecloud]

This discussion is turning into a joke. California has long been the bellwether for the direction of the country. I'm afraid that was a long time ago in a place far far away.

I'm happy that I have been blessed to have had as many runs around the sun as I have had and considering the current direction of this country and the world in general. happier still that the ones that I have left are less than the ones that I have had.

That said, I have learned some things...and I know stuff.
Among that collection of stuff, are these little tidbits:

1. The government is not your friend
2. The bureaucrats who your elected officials appoint are not your friends.
3. Left alone, free enterprise will determine the course of the future of this country, be it energy, environment, or what you choose to put on your hot dog, couscous or whatever it is that you will still be allowed to eat

Number three, however, is the big issue because numbers 1 and 2 won't get out of the f'ing way to allow that to happen..

You're welcome.

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

^^^
I disagree with all of what you said. Without good government we would be choking on smog and pollution like there was 50 years ago. And watching the rivers burn like 50 years ago.
Free enterprise is great when it's small. But that's not what's happening now. If it wasnt for government the food you eat wouldnt be as safe as it is now.... ad nauseam.
I dont agree with all that government does, but in the main it is better than nothing.

 

[pjtoledo]

interesting fact: corporations that kill their customers have NO repeat business and that's very bad for business

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

Really? Explain tobacco...liquor... drug companies that lie about harmful effects...

 

[1990RangerinSK]

What you're describing is not possible. In order to get electrical power from the rear wheels, they have to be spun by the friction from the road. Assuming no efficiency loss anywhere in the process, the best possible case is breaking even. What you suggest is a variation on the perpetual motion concept.

1) the rear wheels are already spinning.
2) It's already being done. You think my '95 Taurus runs all of its electrical needs solely from the battery while I'm driving down the road? It doesn't. It has an alternator, being driven by, and robbing efficiency and power from, the ICE (which happens to be a 3.0 Vulcan, by the way).

If (2) is already happening, and generating enough power to run my heater fan, headlights, tail lights, rear defrost, windshield wipers, marker lights, etc, then I don't see any reason why the rear wheels can't be put to work, driving a generator. I'm not talking about regenerative braking here, dragging the brakes constantly. I'm talking about using the rotational energy of the rear wheels to spin a generator to charge the battery. Like I said, my Taurus has an alternator, driven by the engine's crankshaft, generating electricity to supply all of the electricity I need to power my accessories, AND the spark plugs, without which, my ICE wouldn't even run.