2035

[fastpakr]

Perpetual energy would imply that generation:consumption would be 1:1. I've built into my calculations the fact that you won't be able to replace all of the power you use, driving down the road (theoretically, the ratio would be .75:1).

We all know that adding accessories to an ICE robs the ICE of power. Yes, it makes sense that adding a generator to the rear wheels of an EV will reduce it's range. BUT, it will not reduce the range to 0. And, the generator will compensate for the loss, while at the same time extending the range.

The way I see it, rather than just writing the idea off, why couldn't somebody do some research, and figure out how much power the generator would rob, and how to compensate for the lost power?

What you're describing is not possible. In order to get electrical power from the rear wheels, they have to be spun by the friction from the road. Assuming no efficiency loss anywhere in the process, the best possible case is breaking even. What you suggest is a variation on the perpetual motion concept.

 

[Uncle Gump]

This mandate is approved by the California Air Resources Board (CARB) and only applies to California. I'm not sure why you're extrapolating from that to judgement about current Federal leadership, or anything in "Middle America".

It's likely that other CARB states may follow, but again, that's primarily the "coastal Elites" choosing their own rules, in their own states. That's the core of the States Rights principles that so many "conservatives" claim to love. Somebody in IL is not going to be directly impacted by this.

I'm pretty sure you said pretty much every automaker is going 100 percent EV by 2035 because of government mandates. Seems like it will affect me. And if I choose not to follow along... they will most likely have fossil fuels so expensive I must conform to it.

 

[scotts90ranger]

I deal with CARB, I do not trust CARB, they are regulating a regulation that someone that knows nothing about anything regulated... I once submitted a document mentioning (trying to be universal...) "boosted application", the engine was not forced induction but I was questioned on what a boosted application was, by someone regulating emissions on engines... when I got that email I nearly exploded but composed myself... People in densely populated areas see their little bubble but nothing else, their stupid zoo is a little bubble and not what the country is... that aside I am NOT against improvement, it's just being mandated by people that don't really understand the full implications. Could things be better? Heck yeah but you shouldn't mandate things that aren't even remotely feasible... There should be transitions...

At work we deal with boat engines, sure they're working on electric boats now as lake cruisers but at work we deal in jet boats, some used for work applications (fishing, tours, livelihood in remote locations...) that just is not feasible. As it is we use GM engines mostly (Ford gave up on marine engines in the mid '90's until about 5 years ago when they started offering a couple engines again but those are going through a competitor now) and they barely offer anything usable anymore, the 6.2L DI keeps changing stuff and we can no longer sell it into CA unless we do a 480 hour durability test (many thousands of $$ and time I don't have dealing with other stuff just to sell 5 engines).

I'm all for improvement but there has to be logic involved, sure the majority of the population is in big cities but you can't just ignore the rest of the country, I bet at least 80% of the surface of the country is going to be extremely inconvenienced by these mandates...

Places like LA try to control all of California just like Portland likes to control Oregon and Seattle likes to control Washington, those are small areas of those states...

 

[stmitch]

I'm pretty sure you said pretty much every automaker is going 100 percent EV by 2035 because of government mandates. Seems like it will affect me. And if I choose not to follow along... they will most likely have fossil fuels so expensive I must conform to it.

Government mandates certainly play a role, but the OEMs are going EV (now) because they think it will be more profitable. They expect to manufacture them more easily, have fewer warranty issues, spend less on R&D to meet emissions regs, and be able to sell your data like the Big Tech companies do.

You're retired right? This mandate is currently scheduled to take effect in CA 12 years from now. And because it allows PHEV (which have an ICE) and there will still be tens of millions of ICE powered older vehicles on the road, it will probably be a few decades before gas or ICE vehicles aren't readily available in California. Let alone in places that don't choose to follow CARB rules and standards. Without getting too macabre, I'm willing to bet that it won't be a problem for you during your lifetime. I certainly wouldn't be getting too worked up about it. There are better ways to spend your time and energy than worrying about what might happen in another state over a decade from now.

This isn't an attack on you or the way that you live. This is a State's Rights issue. It's also an opportunity for tons of people to earn great money, clean up their footprint, and improve their independence. Nobody is taking your ICE from you. Nobody is requiring you to buy a brand new vehicle. Nobody is forcing you to be anything or give up anything that you don't want to. Even if fuel prices go up, there are pretty easy ways for you to mitigate the impact that would have on you. Used hybrids are cheap (even cheaper than a new Maverick!). Driving less should be pretty easy for a retired person such as yourself.

 

[Uncle Gump]

So I should buy a worn out POS hybrid and take up knitting... got it.

You aren't talking to rusty... I said I was on board with a hybrid. I'm not even opposed to full electric if it will fit my needs.

 

[Uncle Gump]

The rest of what I want to say becomes far more political... and I'm not going there. I've said enough already.

 

[Bill]

Could you be thinking of the budget surplus that happens on occasion? Think California had a surplus a couple years ago. It was on the news. But the debt is the accumulation of budget deficits, which is projected to be over $180B by 2027.

Have a friend that lives close to LA that is a contractor. He's hurting right now for work. Hope things get better.

I'm would have to do more research because I likely read something that gave me disinformation regarding the current state of the budget here. We may have a surplus. I read something the other day that stated almost every state is running a deficit due to the COVID mess. Anyway, it looks like there's a surplus. California has a history of deficits and surplus, and again, its the nature of how California collects taxes. When the economy is good there's a lot more revenue to be collected because people and companies have higher incomes, and they buy more stuff like cars and junk at Walmart where sales tax is collected. When the economy is bad, incomes go down, people spend less, and so does tax revenue. This problem exists to various extents in other states, but they have revenue sources that aren't dependant on incomes, and some of those states receive a huge amount of money from the Federal government to keep them going.

The ability to find a job has little to to with a deficit with the excpetion of how much government spending goes into a certain job sector in a given area. A lot of people are having problems finding jobs while employers state they can't find anyone to hire. I'm in the same situation. In my case one of the dealbreakers is that I'm in my 50s. They want someone in their 20s. I've done a lot of temporary work that has lasted anywhere from a month to a year. They call that job hopping. Since I'm older and have experience, I've been rejected from jobs because they think I would get bored and quit. Yet, employers lay off and fire people at a whim to fight wage inflation, and this is the likely reason why Ford has decided to fire 3000 employees rather than transistion them into the EV manufacturing side of the business. Ford is likely to hire new employees for less than the old ones were making.

Also, the media says a lot of things about a lot of places to get you to click on a link or sit and watch whatever news segment they've dreamt up, and they will present it any way they can to get their audience all worked up about things, and mostly things that will never affect them.

 

[Bill]

What the hell has happened to this country? We used to set big goals and achieve them, or at least learn a ton along the way. Now, lots of people that claim to be patriots, or lovers of independence just whine and poo poo big ideas and goals that can actually improve our freedom and independence, while they parrot poorly thought out arguments about "big government overreach", or "killing freedom".

There's a lot behind this, and it usually originates with something to do with money, and it is usually people that have an obscene amount of money who spend a lot of money stopping things because they think something is going to have some effect on their wealth. Let me remind you again, these people are so obscenely wealthy that nothing done to improve the quality of life for this country is going to have an impact on their lifestyles. They set up fake organizations with catchy names to spread propaganda and lobby politicians, they fund "think tanks" to come up with ideas about how to achieve their goals. They do all kinds of things. They're the reason why projects like the high speed rail in California got nonstop attention. A significant amount of that controversy comes from organizations that aren't in California. Why? They may be invested in oil or the auto industry and think less people driving are going to buy less gas and fewer cars, so they will make less money. If they can they will drive up costs with the goal of making is so expensive it will never get built. They will find any way they can to delay construction, and they will make up nonexistent issues like it can't be built in Southern California because there are mountains and faults in the way. Then the average American who sits in front of the television drinking beer hears this garbage and they don't even take the effort to ask themelves how other countries have built high speed rail over mountain ranges with faults and a fraction of what it costs to do it here.

 

[Bill]

It's likely that other CARB states may follow, but again, that's primarily the "coastal Elites" choosing their own rules, in their own states. That's the core of the States Rights principles that so many "conservatives" claim to love. Somebody in IL is not going to be directly impacted by this.

CARB and emission rules aren't about choosing rules. There's quite an extensive history about emission controls and there are legitimate reasons behind the rules. Even the stupid rules that came about because stupid people wouldn't listen.

 

[Bill]

I deal with CARB, I do not trust CARB, they are regulating a regulation that someone that knows nothing about anything regulated... I once submitted a document mentioning (trying to be universal...) "boosted application", the engine was not forced induction but I was questioned on what a boosted application was, by someone regulating emissions on engines... when I got that email I nearly exploded but composed myself... People in densely populated areas see their little bubble but nothing else, their stupid zoo is a little bubble and not what the country is... that aside I am NOT against improvement, it's just being mandated by people that don't really understand the full implications. Could things be better? Heck yeah but you shouldn't mandate things that aren't even remotely feasible... There should be transitions...

Half of that doesn't make sense. Boosted and forced induction are synonymous and require very specific controls to reduce emissions produced under high compression. They probably were confused by your question.

We are talking about emissions here. There's no urban or rural bubbles. This affects everyone. Ozone from ICE engines in urban areas blows downwind and can have an impact on agriculture and forests hundreds of miles away. Changes to the climate affect people all over the world. The real issue is you, and many other people don't like it. I like cars and trucks, so I don't like it either. But, I have enough formal education in meteorology and atmosphic science to know what the potential impact is going to be if things don't change.

 

[Uncle Gump]

Where are we getting all the materials to build all these batteries?

Anyone seen the plans for how we're going to fix the grid to accommodate this added load. I wonder how many career politicians have invested in these companies that are going to do the updates. Only seems right that they become even richer on the backs if the working class.

I mean... didn't Biden already spend several trillion?

 

[scotts90ranger]

The boosted application thing was on an "auxiliary emissions component description" document, I don't remember the exact verbiage but if you had the slightest inclination of what "boosted" meant in terms of an engine, it was very obvious...

I have no problem with a lot of the regulations, EPA is simple and they have real engineers that know how engines work, CARB has paper pushers that overanalyze things thinking everyone is as screwed up as Volkswagen was on their TDI thing a few years ago... which isn't far from how things work but for small companies that are trying to be honest they sure make things a PITA. Heck for their nonroad engines from 2006 until the 2022 model year the certificate process had no cost (other than the consulting firm we use to do the submittals) where the EPA has a flat $567ish fee per engine family, now they're implementing an obscure fee schedule between $2k to like 5k based on some random stuff per engine family...

I know it's not a big city vs the world thing, this country has had what, a 90% emissions reduction over the last 2-3 decades? We should try to work toward progress but everyone in politics seems to be getting their panties in knots to try to fix like 3% of the issue... The infrastructure to support this electrification IS NOT THERE, they keep shooting down all the decent ideas, they worry about finding ways to make rich people richer at the cost of us peons more than the real issues...

I'm with Gump, I'd buy a hybrid (after the depreciation is set in, I'm super cheap after all...), it's a much better option for the real world... I just think that all the people with any power are overstepping and jumping to "mandate" things that aren't the absolute answer...

 

[sgtsandman]

They are more interested in pushing the agenda than look at things from a realistic and practical perspective. People from the city, much like politicians think what is appropriate for them is appropriate for everyone and everyone must have what they think they should.

There are those who say no one is forcing anyone into anything and perhaps from their perspective, no one is. I've worked for the government for over 35 years and watched what the government has done for at least that long since kids generally don't pay attention to such things while growing up. Right now, only California and a couple other states are pushing the concept and insisting that it is only for new vehicles starting at a certain date. Vehicle manufacturers are planning on only offering EV vehicles by a certain date. Seems to be a forced thing to me. Older vehicles only last so long before you can't repair them anymore, especially in the rust belt. In any case, I've enough experience with government as a by stander and a participant to know exactly where this is going and owners of ICE vehicles will eventually be forced out of them one way or another.

I also hate the fact that countries in Europe and North America are taking the brunt of this when we are not the only ones generating emissions and the emission we emit are a pittance compared to what they were. Meanwhile, is happily doing and generating what they want and no one seems to give a crap.

Like I said before, if an EV works for you and you want one, by all means get one. I'm not your boss, it isn't my money, and I really don't care what you drive. Just don't tell me what I have to get and drive. And they damn well will do that. Not today but it's coming. And if they can't mandate you into getting one, the will make the parts stream and fuel supply dry up or cost so much that you are all but forced to. Which is still force just in an indirect way. Because our betters said so and they know what's best for us no matter what we think.

 

[RonD]

I can see if now..........................

2035 add in auto trader:
For sale 2020 Tesla Coyote V8 conversion, runs on gas or alcohol
Trunk in the rear as God intended

Wonder why we have seen these yet?

Horses had a good run 2,000+ years, pun intended
ICE is going on 125 years, probably at least 75 more years left
Electric 24 years and counting, Ranger EV 1998

Politicians say what they need to to get elected or stay elected, lower taxes and more spending, lol
Government is politicians, so................

You can't change what others do, or don't do
If you want to recycle or go electric or "lower your carbon footprint", then do it, what your neighbours, or other countries do, shouldn't effect your decisions, that's like letting someone else run your life

 

[19Walt93]

Perpetual energy would imply that generation:consumption would be 1:1. I've built into my calculations the fact that you won't be able to replace all of the power you use, driving down the road (theoretically, the ratio would be .75:1).

We all know that adding accessories to an ICE robs the ICE of power. Yes, it makes sense that adding a generator to the rear wheels of an EV will reduce it's range. BUT, it will not reduce the range to 0. And, the generator will compensate for the loss, while at the same time extending the range.

The way I see it, rather than just writing the idea off, why couldn't somebody do some research, and figure out how much power the generator would rob, and how to compensate for the lost power?

Using the rear wheels to power a generator would obviously add drag that would cause the rear wheels to slide on dirt, snow, or in heavy rain.