2002 FlexFuel Grumpyness

[Chazz Layne]

I've been having some troubles with our truck for a few months (2WD 2002 3.0L FlexFuel with auto trans and about 80k miles), the symptoms (which are 100% consistent, predictable, and recreate-able) are as follows:

- takes a long time to start, and will not start without pumping the gas (alternately, if I put it in run and pump the gas fully 12-15 times and then try to start it she fires right up)... this happens cold or warm

- extremely rough idle which if left alone leads to a CEL and a misfire code, yet it seems to be idling high enough (~800 RPM)... CEL/code/roughness can be avoided by manually keeping the throttle at ~1k RPM. This occurs in park, drive, neutral, reverse, you name it... it even happens coasting down a hill if the throttle falls far enough. This symptom does not occur during the warm-up cycle when the computer has the throttle up over 1k.

- fluttering oil pressure if left at idle, which is a new symptom that started this week



Aside from the above symptoms the truck seems to run and drive just as good as it has since we bought it in 2002. The engine has been fairly well taken care of, has never been overheated, some light towing, etc.

After searching and reading these forums for some time I've done the following maintenance in an attempt to correct the problem (with no success):

- oil and filter changed

- plugs and wires changed (upgraded to 8mm "lifetime" wires while I was at it)

- replaced fuel filter

- checked air filter to find it was still clean from the 70k service

- replaced trans fluid

- ran fuel system cleaner through it with a full tank of good, clean gas (Chevron)

- checked throttle linkage and cabling... no pinches, bends, kinks, or fraying

- picked up a new PCV valve, but for the life of me can't find where it is located on this motor



Yes, I'm trying to avoid replacing the fuel pump even though it kept popping up in my searches. I could be wrong, but the consistency of the symptoms makes me think the pump is ok... it would be more random if it were dying, right? Any other thoughts on what it might be?



TIA... oh and I am in BFE so I'm also trying to avoid repeated 2 hour drives to a real mechanic, thus me tinkering in the garage with my admittedly limited tools...

 

[JP02XLT]

Seriously "pumping the gas" as you say has zero effect on starting the vehicle, all your doing is opening & closing the butterfly on the throttle body, Try this, turn the key on listen for the pump to run, when the pump shuts off, turn key off, repeat 4-5 times, then start vehicle, if it fires right up, its more than likely a weak pump. PVC valve is located near the firewall in the end of the upper intake manifold. The idle symptom you describe is an idle air control issue, If the truck will not start without mashing on the accelerator chances are the IAC has the bypass air passage completely shut off & the engine is chocking itself. Sometime these can be cleaned & replaced but usually a replacement is required. The fluttering oil pressure could be caused by the variable idle, but if not replace the oil pressure sending unit & it should be fine, otherwise you need to check the actual oil pressure with a mechanical gauge, as the Ford unit is just an indication the pressure is over 10-12 psi.

One other thing to check is the Coolant temp sensor, The one that reports temp to the computer, if it is reading wrong, you will have problems starting also.

If you find it is the fuel pump, pull the bed off, power wash the top of the tank prior to taking it apart, its much easier that way & things will be nice & clean.

JP02XLT

 

[Big Jim M]

Me? I totally agree with everything JPO said...do it all!
Big JIm

 

[Chazz Layne]

Try this, turn the key on listen for the pump to run, when the pump shuts off, turn key off, repeat 4-5 times, then start vehicle, if it fires right up, its more than likely a weak pump.

What if it makes no noise at all?

Thanks, that narrowed it down real quick. It started whirring on the 3rd or 4th time around and fired right up when I tried to start it on the 5th. Looks like I'll be ordering a new fuel pump next month. I'll do the PCV as well for good measure since I already have a new one sitting here, and see what happens after I replace the pump.

If you find it is the fuel pump, pull the bed off, power wash the top of the tank prior to taking it apart, its much easier that way & things will be nice & clean.

Huh, never thought about doing it that way before.

 

[JP02XLT]

What if it makes no noise at all?

Ding, Ding, Ding, no noise at all makes you a fuel pump winner. Its not that bad a job just get 3 buddies to help you lift the bed off & on, Oh the tailights have a harness that unplugs near the tailgate, just look for the connector, the rest is easy.

Glad you found it

JP02XLT

 

[laidout]

i have the same issues!

i am having the EXACT same issues with my truck! i have an '02 flex fuel, rwd, 3.0l and i have the same exact issues, with the exception of having to hit the gas every time i start it. my truck will start fine 99% of the time. occasionally i will have to hold the gas down to the floor while i start it, but this is rare. my oil pressure gauge will "flicker" from normal to "0" very fast at traffic lights and other times when left to idle once warm. i just replaced my pcv and EVERYTHING else chazz layne replaced.

my fuel pump primes just fine every time i turn the key. sometimes the truck acts like it is hitting the fuel cutoff, but at NOWHERE near the redline.

 

[JP02XLT]

Just because you hear it run does not mean it is building sufficient pressure, 2nd step after you hear it running is to do an actual pressure check with it both cold & hot, I have seen problems on either end of the temp scale with pumps, If the FP is within specs, As for holding the throttle open to start the truck its either the IAC has failed & not retracting back to allow enough air to idle, or a engine / ECU temp sensor not reporting a proper temp to allow sufficient fuel to be commanded / delivered by the ECU. Low fuel pressure can cause a vehicle to be a real nightmare to start & run as it should, some injectors do not even operate well on the low end of the "good" scale.

JP02XLT

 

[Chazz Layne]

On the plus side, at least you know all that stuff you just replaced is brand new now.



Well getting the bed off was pretty easy, the wife and I were able to get it off and to the side. Unfortunately, the parts store did not send me the part that I ordered from them, but instead some gizmo that doesn't even fit on a Ranger. I've also noticed an interesting side-effect since removing the bed: now I can't stop thinking about building a flatbed for it...

 

[bronco_lou]

occasionally i will have to hold the gas down to the floor while i start it

If I am not mistaken, if you hold the gas pedal down and then try to start the engine, the computer goes into a flood clear mode and shuts down the injectors.

Louis

 

[McCormack]

FYI, most parts places will try to sell you the gas gauge sending unit and fuel pump as one unit, but you can save some money by just buying the fuel pump and then assembling it with your existing sending unit.

 

[fixizin]

FYI, most parts places will try to sell you the gas gauge sending unit and fuel pump as one unit, but you can save some money by just buying the fuel pump and then assembling it with your existing sending unit.

The BASTIGES!... I wonder where Advance Auto falls in this scam?

PS: Any brands/sources of fuel pumps to avoid like Ebola?

 

[Chazz Layne]

FYI, most parts places will try to sell you the gas gauge sending unit and fuel pump as one unit, but you can save some money by just buying the fuel pump and then assembling it with your existing sending unit.

I would have loved to go that route, but unfortunately the first vendor I tried sent the wrong pump (it isn't even the same part number I ordered, way too big and wrong connector) and ended up being a total turd about it (never ever buy from Autopartswarehouse.com). Since I'm short on time (must have the truck up and running Friday morning) I just bought from Rock Auto since I know they can be trusted.


I have the assembly here now, but ran into a different problem. The lock ring broke when I pulled it off (shattered) and the new one appears to be 1/16th of an inch too small... for the life of me I can't get the damn thing to screw back in place. I can barely get the threads started before it pops off. Is it supposed to be this tight of a fit?

 

[Chazz Layne]

PS: Any brands/sources of fuel pumps to avoid like Ebola?

AutoPartsWarehouse.com... never ever buy. They sent me the wrong part (the part number doesn't even match what is on the invoice) and have yet to make good on it despite several attempts to contact them... all but the first of which they have completely ignored.

 

[locovaca]

AutoPartsWarehouse.com... never ever buy. They sent me the wrong part (the part number doesn't even match what is on the invoice) and have yet to make good on it despite several attempts to contact them... all but the first of which they have completely ignored.

APW is a scam. Had the same thing happen, only they sent the same part but a remanufactured version. I started the RMA process, read the other horror stories on the Internet, and just kept the reman and ate the $10.

 

[Chazz Layne]

Supposedly, I am going to be receiving a pre-paid FedEx label from them "in a separate email", we'll see.



New pump installed, after a little frustration splicing wiring harnesses (are there ANY vendors out there that know WTF a 3.0L FlexFuel's pump looks like???). Fortunately, the color codes were the same. Unfortunately, it now runs 5x worse than it did on the old dead pump and continues running bad under any amount of throttle. The fuel gauge also reads 1/8th now, despite having at least 2/3rds in the tank.

Also, I can't remember if these trucks pressurize the fuel tank or not, but there is no pressure in the tank when I pop the cap. Yes, I have triple-checked the wiring and the seals on the tank/pump.