2.8 or swap in 302?

[Dasan458]

I picked up an '83 4x4 from a friend for trade on replacing the engine on his mom's leSabre. And well its in pretty good condition cept for the bed.

But what I came here today for is this: it has a 2.8 and iv heard they are both good and bad. Researched it and came up with both sides. Some like the 2.8, and some don't. But what I want is an engine that gets relatively good gas mileage and enough hp. I read that it can get up to 32 mpg and around 200 hp just by deleting the smog control crap. But is it worth rebuilding and making it a better engine (considering putting an Eaton m90 on it) or putting in a 302?

Now the 5.0 is out of a '01 mountaineer, but needs rebuilding too. I'd do the same and put the supercharger on it, but would I have to get a new tranny and rebuild the differentials (due to more power)?

I'd like to hear all and any thoughts as winter is coming and a 4x4 is needed.

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[Dasan458]

Maybe I should have put this under the 2.8 section

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[Dasan458]

I'm gonna post another one in the 2.8 section

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[85_Ranger4x4]

Delete emissions stuff with changing the carb and ignition (duraspark) in it will bring it to 1970's power levels. Still about 100hp, see also Pinto and Mustang II's for power specs because they would be essentially the same engine at the point. 302's were aspiring to touch 150hp in that time frame so a 2.8 getting within gunshot range of 200 is kind of comical.

Kind of uncharted territory as far as I know boosting a 2.8.

32mpg is probably in the pinto/Mustang II platform.

302>rebuilt 2.8.

 

[fastpakr]

Agreed. 10-15 years ago you had some options for building a 2.8 via the Offenhauser intake, Holley 390 carb, various cam grinds, etc. At this point the best thing you can do is make it run like it should have from the factory via Duraspark II ignition and a basic 2150 carb. Running properly you should be able to get 17-20mpg around town and 23 or so on the highway. If you need more power then a 302 is always an option. In that case, don't worry about the fuel economy because it's obviously not your priority. You've got the range with the stock 23 gallon tank to keep up with any typical vehicle even if your efficiency drops to 15 mpg.

 

[Davis]

There is 0% chance you'll get either 200hp or 32 mpg with that engine. In fact it's near impossible to get 32mpg in a ranger no matter what engine, unless you swap in a diesel. Realistic goals are important, because you'll just end up disappointed otherwise.

The 2.8 was ok back in the 80s, it's a complete turd by today's standards.

The V8 you are talking about would give you about 200 to the rear wheels (maybe 250 to the flywheel) in stock form, and maybe 100hp more with a supercharger. At that point you'll probably be getting between 13-17 mpg.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

I think for what a compact truck is intended to do a 2.8 is adequate. People want miniature one ton trucks or a Mustang with a bed and that is where they get disappointed.

I had one for 11 years, it was very well past its prime but it did what I needed. Tougher than tough, it lasted a lot longer than it should have.

 

[JoshT]

Even today speed parts are still available for the 2.8l you just got to be patient and look for them.

Offy still sells the 4 bbl intake new it's just difficult to find a listing online.

Holley will never stop making the 390 carb, its still too popular for smaller motors.

Comp Cams and at least one other still make cams for the 2.8l.

I had a 2.8l ranger with all the goodies before I totaled the truck. It wasn't a V8, but it was fun to drive. Now I'm building a V8 Ranger but I've still got that 2.8, waiting to find a good home for it.

If you want to get 32 mpg you are looking at all the wrong stuff. You don't want to build the motor too much, you want taller gearing. That's how the cars did it, but it will loose acelleration and power.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

Cars did taller gears because they didn't have overdrive yet.

 

[JoshT]

Not exactly. It's more like cars got overdrive because everybody wanted a shorter gear, but that's a topic for another time.

IMHO this is what you should do:

As you said winter is coming. It sounds like the truck is running. Use it as is for the winter. If you still want more power and/or a bigger motor do it after winter is over. If you start on this project now the truck probably won't be ready when you need it.

If you are having issues with the 2.8L running, then look into the Smog delete and duraspark or HEI conversion. Information on the former can be found in the 2.8L forum and mostly requires replacing the carb with a motorcraft non-feedback or a holley 2bbl. More information on the latter can be found in the tech library or once again in the 2.8L forum. If you are no having problems with it, I'd leave it alone.


If you decide to build the 2.8L:

First, whoever said 32 mpg was driving a car on the highway with a tall gear ratio and a strong tail wind. Not saying that it can't be done, but it's not going to be done regularly and no spirited driving allowed. It certainly wasn't done with a 4x4 truck. If the same guy said 200 hp from removing the smog components, well he was just blowing smoke up someone's ass. A 2.8L can hit 200 HP, but it takes a lot of work, a lot of custom machining, and a lot of money.

Second, stock for stock rebuilding the 2.8L and getting it running will cost almost as much as rebuilding the 5.0L and installing it. Adding in performance parts will quickly run the bill up for either one, with the 2.8L being more expensive if you decide to get wild.

More 2.8L performance parts:

Comp Cams still sells a couple of different off-the-shelf cams for the 2.8L

Racer Walsh offers a couple of off-the-shelf cams and is a source for the Offy intake manifolds. The also offer forged pistons but I'm not sure that the compression ratio is what you want.

Crane Cams will make them, but it's custom order.

Not sure about headers to fit your 4x4.

I wouldn't bother with the supercharger, but it can and has been done. They used to sell super and turbo charger kits for the old Mustang II and Pinto 2.8L cars. Some people also swap these into the little sunbeam Alpine cars and will use forced induction for a little more power. If you were going to try you'd probably be better off with a centrifugal supercharger and a blow through setup on a Holley 2bbl with the stock intake. In order to make the Eaton M90 work you would have to build a custom intake, or use an Offy intake and replace the top half with a custom plate and get a carb adapter for the M90.



For the 5.0L:

A NA 5.0L in stock form is going to be plenty for an 83 4x4. It'll make at least as much as a stock 2.8L with supercharger can reliably, most likely more. For what you would spend on installing the M90 on that 2.8L, you could probably buy aftermarket heads and a decent cam for the 5.0L and be even better off. The M90 would want these to really be happy on the 5.0L anyway.

The 4R70W (mountaineer trans) will be good up to about 500 hp, the limits of the stock block aren't much past that so no need to rebuild it for power. If you aren't going to use the Explorer EFI system then you will need a separate transmission controller to use this trans.

A stock 5.0L will kill the stock Ranger differentials if you are rough on the skinny pedal, they need to be replaced and upgraded instead of rebuilt. You will at least want an 8.8" (like the one in the mountaineer) in the rear, as well as a Dana 35 in front if you plan to install bigger tires and wheel much. If you are serious about the supercharger you might want to go solid axle in front as well.

 

[Dasan458]

The only problem is that I only have the 5.0 engine. I was planning on putting a carb on it if I were to use that. The 2.8 smokes oil and makes it look like a diesel, so if I were to replace the valve seals I'd want to rebuild the engine. That's my challenge is do I rebuild the 2.8 and spend as much as putting the 5.0 and new tranny and diff in? That's what I have to decide. I want to put and engine in with as much wiring as a carb engine cuz I hate dealing with lots of wires. I appreciate the info too. Now I looked up the specs for the 2.8 and it says the v6 is supposed to have 115 stock hp. I'd like to get a little more cuz I like power and I'm used to driving a MAZDA b2600i with more power than that, and also an SVT Contour.

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[JoshT]

My answer to your challenge, based on the information you have provided. Fix the 2.8L, but do not rebuild it. After winter do the V8 swap if you still want to, or keep it with the 2.8L for the rusty winter beater.

If its the valve stem seals leaking, just replace them. It's really not that hard of a job, don't even need to pull the heads off to do it. I'm not going to try to diagnose oil burning over the internet, but here's a link to the replacing valve seals on a 2.8L. It'll also be a good time to replace spark plugs and adjust the valve lash, latter of which has probably never been done. I certainly wouldn't rebuild the motor just because of the valve stem seals.

I still say do the little maintenance on the 2.8L to keep it running through the winter. If their is ice and snow on the roads you don't want to be playing with V8 power too much anyway. Drive the truck for a little while then decide what you want to do for the long term. If it's install a V8, then start collecting the parts to do the swap, and you've still got the truck while you are getting them together. Trust me, an engine swap never goes as quickly and easily as planned. If you want it to drive this winter, you don't want to start with the deadline this close. Same goes for rebuilding the 2.8L if you decide to go that route.

FWIW a bone stock rebuild on the 2.8L could be done fairly cheap if it's in decent shape internally, probably about $400 for a kit plus machine work. Where the money comes in is trying to go for performance. You can easily add $1500 to that for a cam and supporting power adders (intake, exhaust, carb).

So you've only got the 5.0L engine, nothing else? I wouldn't try to rush a V8 swap now to drive for winter, because you most likely won't be happy with the results. What you want can be done, but I highly recommend taking your time and reading on some other member's 4x4 V8 swaps to get a good idea of how you want to build before even starting to collect parts.


Some more of my extra $0.02... It sounds like you want to have this for winter driving because you feel the need for a 4wd. That sounds to me like snow and ice on the roads, which also means salt or other chemicals to remove it. Those chemicals usually mean vehicles rust rapidly, and this truck already has rust problems. Do you really want to put a lot of time and effort into an engine swap or a trick rebuild to just watch the truck rust away around it? I think I would keep this truck stock, fix what needs to be fixed, and use it as a winter beater until it dies or rusts away.

That's my opinion. My 4x4 is a 99 4.0L. I don't have need for a winter beater. I've got a freebie 2000 Ranger 3.0L that needs a tune up and has been sitting at my parents house untouched for a year. I've got a stalled First gen V8 project that's been sitting for almost 3 years. So take it for what it's worth to you.

 

[Dasan458]

Thanx for you input. I'll definitely hold off on rebuilds or swaps for after winter. But the truck isn't that badly rusted cept for the bed. I inspected it and the floor pans are pristine along with everything else. The bed is rusty cuz its not the original and it was already rusting. I plan to fix it up after winter and I ft it. So rust isn't a problem. I plan to powder coat the frame and spray the underneath of the cab with rustoleum after winter.

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[Dasan458]

I'll just do maintenance on it for now. The guy drove it easy but not much so it should have some life left in it

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[Dasan458]

Thanx for the link too, it has good info

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