2.3 wont idle/run for long

[cody93]

well ive bought a new truck, it dont run as good as i like
specs:
87 2.3l 5spd, no ps/brake booster, just an alternator

back story: bought this truck off craigslist for 800, body is mint, motor seems solid(no oil leak/blow by/smoke) old owner used it to comute from school and back, nothing abusive. he said he changed fuel pumps, spark plugs and spark plug wires. it drove for a few miles with constant dieing and eventually it got chained to another truck and towed the rest the way. old batt was deadish, one cell was shot in it, so i got a new batt, ALT is good, 14.2 volts when running. managed to drive it 1 mile to my house after a new batt.

here the symptoms:
-tends to stall after 20 secs of starting the engine and letting it idle.
-stalls when pressing the clutch in to shift gears(due to letting off the gas)
-motor bogs down and stalls if throttle is held in at same place over time, did not try WOT as its an old motor.
-can be kept alive by backing of the throttle for a sec and then going back on it, and then letting off again.
-noticable smell of unburnt fuel in the air.


what ive done so far:
-cleaned IAC valve with TB cleaner, was full of carbon, plenty clean now, it dosen't solve the stalling issue tho.
-removed the air filter, it was dirty and i cant get a ride into town yet, it didn't help so i put it back
-checked the fuel pressure regulator for leaks, no fuel in the vacuum line, nor dose gas squirt out when its primmed, so FPR is not leaking, not sure if its 100% good tho.
-checked for loose vacuum lines, i dont think i got them all... i think i need to go find some chewing gum...
-gave the cat a tap to see if it rattles, no rattle, exhaust gases seem to come out of it ok when its running.

things i noticed:
-no black smoke
-pulled a plug, not covered in black soot or looks burned, seems healthy, altho its a new plug from what im told.
-vacuum seems weak, pulled the vac line going to the PCV, motor about died when i took it off, didn't die when i stuck my finger over the end of the line, well it died a few secs later, no noticable suction with my finger on it while running.

things i may wana check:
-O2 sensors? suspicious because motor dies around 20 secs after a cold start, about the time the ECU would check the O2 sensor.
-fuel quality, i have no clue as to what condition the gas in the tank is in, except i have a half tank of it from the old owner... it should probly be OK.
-leaky injector? giving out to much fuel flooding out the engine and leaving the fuel smell in the air?
-bad EGR valve?

guys help me out here, this is the first car i ever bought and named...
EFI is like dark voodoo magic to me, to many danm sensors. i realy wish i found a pinto 2.3 intake+carb right now on another side note, i moved here not to long ago and have a very pathetic set of tools wich include channel locks, vise grips, a set of metric/us wrenches abd socket set without exstentions, some pliers, various screwdrivers, a hammer, a multi meter, WD-40 and off course, duct tape... dont got much of a budget so i wana do alot of testing before i shell up the dough for a part, even if i have to bypass somewat important things to verify.

 

[rockin86ranger]

Just because the cat doesnt rattle doesnt mean its not shot, are you sure you're smelling unburnt fuel and not a "cat" going out.

to test this you can go to a vehicle you know has a good cat with a factory exhaust system and have someone start it and see how long it takes for the air to move and see how much pressure its putting out.
then do the same thing to the ranger and see if there is a difference, just use a vehicle that has as close of an engine size as your truck.

FYI i suck at diagnosing vehicle i cant physically examine so im just kind of going through some of the stuff i've seen

 

[kimcrwbr1]

Start off with a new PCV and vacuum line to it to eliminate that variable. Check all the vacuum lines for flex if they are hard replace them. Warm the engine all the way up then run some seafoam thru the pcv at an idle about 1/3 of a can and shut it down quick, wait 1/2 an hour then start it and run it around 2500-3000 rpm until the smoke stops. Then continue with the diagnostic you may need to feather the throttle to pull the seafoam in jut make sure the engine is good and warm first.

 

[cody93]

i'll focus in on how much back pressure it has, if i suspect its got to much, i'll just unbolt the exhaust from the manifold, good thing i got a can of "Bust a Nut" im glad i have you guys at TRS to help a noob like me.

 

[kimcrwbr1]

Just because the cat doesnt rattle doesnt mean its not shot, are you sure you're smelling unburnt fuel and not a "cat" going out.

to test this you can go to a vehicle you know has a good cat with a factory exhaust system and have someone start it and see how long it takes for the air to move and see how much pressure its putting out.
then do the same thing to the ranger and see if there is a difference, just use a vehicle that has as close of an engine size as your truck.

FYI i suck at diagnosing vehicle i cant physically examine so im just kind of going through some of the stuff i've seen

another way to test the cat is have someone give it gas while you hand is on the tailpipe if the pressure dont raise evenly with rpm it is more than likely the cat or muffler.

 

[cody93]

Start off with a new PCV and vacuum line to it to eliminate that variable. Check all the vacuum lines for flex if they are hard replace them. Warm the engine all the way up then run some seafoam thru the pcv at an idle about 1/3 of a can and shut it down quick, wait 1/2 an hour then start it and run it around 2500-3000 rpm until the smoke stops. Then continue with the diagnostic you may need to feather the throttle to pull the seafoam in jut make sure the engine is good and warm first.

would it be possible to temporaly plug all the vac lines except the MAP to see if it helps, i live in the sticks and autozone is far away and wana keep trips there a minimum, heck im not even sure its a pcv valve on the valve covers, looks more like a vent tube with a vac line on it that someone welded in... i thought about seafoam, may have to try that, if i can get the car to run long enough to suck up a 1/3 can...

 

[rockin86ranger]

And just fyi an o2 sensor doesnt usually cause something to stall out, so i wouldnt worry to much about the o2 sensor right now. if you can get it to stay running and still not running perfectly then check the o2 sensors.

Does it do it everytime it starts up or only when it gets to operating temp

Also i would eliminate a bad injector because if 1 injector was bad it would have a heck of a miss right after start up and not 20 sec later

i would also eliminate egr valve, a bad egr valve will make it die at idle but usually the motor will still run fine when you are on the gas


Also you might try to get us some good underhood pics, maybe someone will notice something that doesnt seem right

 

[cody93]

every time it starts, cold or warm it dies within 10-25 secs, last a lil longer if you feather the gas. trying to find the diagnostic connecter, but cant, should be by the heater box right?

 

[rockin86ranger]

Diagnostic conncetor should be on the driver side, it will be in little black plug that say something like "Diagnostics" or Engine Diagnosis on it. it will be about 2 inches long and 3/4 inch think and be tapered in on one side with a shorter side

kinda like this

___
/_____\

 

[rockin86ranger]

if not it will be 2 plugs hanging loose one will be a small square plug with 1 connector in it and the other will be a connector close to the shape above and with like 7? pins in it. also the plug will be under the hood

 

[kimcrwbr1]

http://www.therangerstation.com/tech_library/OBD_I.html Read this through

 

[rockin86ranger]

I was gonna try to find the video but that works just as good

 

[cody93]

checked around for it this morning before i left home, no OBD port, my old 88 2.9 had its OBD port on the passenger side by the heater box. its hot out there so i probly wont work on it today, mabey i'll take a video or get pics to give you guys a look at what i see.

just to clear something up, motor sounds healthy and powerful when its running, i dont think its missing, just slowly bogs down after 20 secs of starting it.

 

[kimcrwbr1]

checked around for it this morning before i left home, no OBD port, my old 88 2.9 had its OBD port on the passenger side by the heater box. its hot out there so i probly wont work on it today, mabey i'll take a video or get pics to give you guys a look at what i see.

just to clear something up, motor sounds healthy and powerful when its running, i dont think its missing, just slowly bogs down after 20 secs of starting it.

It really sounds like a plugged cat or muffler hold your hand over the tailpipe then have someone start it then give it gas the pressure out should be equal to rpm if it just stays the same there is restriction somewhere.

 

[rockin86ranger]

Besides on a truck that old the codes probably wont tell you to much anyways, i mean my ranger had an obd hook up but i dont know whats it gonna read, theres no o2 sensors, its carbed, and had a dizzy. not much there to go on.

but check the cats i'm not gonna gaurantee thats what whats wrong but it what it sounds like to me