1989 B2 2.9L starter issues

[Elijah1989]

I just bought a 1989 B2 for my daily driver. I knew it needed work so no surprise there. I'm having issues with starter. Truck did not have keys so he couldn't start it for me. He said he could push start it but tried to change clutch himself and screwed it up.

I put in a new ignition lock cylinder, tried starting it. Nothing. Put a new starter in and got the truck to turn over when I accidentally tightened starter wire from solenoid to tight and it touch battery wire from other side of solenoid. As soon as I hooked the battery back up truck started to try cranking. Took it back off battery and fixed the wires, re-hooked up battery. I turned the key. Nothing.

I tried bridging solenoid only a big spark. Didn't try to start. I ran the line from the starter directly to the battery. More sparks no starting. The direct line had a blue arch and was slowly eating away at battery terminal. I checked wire from battery to solenoid and solenoid to started it all seems fine. No cracks or anything.

I'm lost here. Could it be a ground issue? Or a weak battery? And why won't my key even try to start it? Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks,

Elijah

 

[Aldo94]

I just bought a 1989 B2 for my daily driver. I knew it needed work so no surprise there. I'm having issues with starter. Truck did not have keys so he couldn't start it for me. He said he could push start it but tried to change clutch himself and screwed it up.

I put in a new ignition lock cylinder, tried starting it. Nothing. Put a new starter in and got the truck to turn over when I accidentally tightened starter wire from solenoid to tight and it touch battery wire from other side of solenoid. As soon as I hooked the battery back up truck started to try cranking. Took it back off battery and fixed the wires, re-hooked up battery. I turned the key. Nothing.

I tried bridging solenoid only a big spark. Didn't try to start. I ran the line from the starter directly to the battery. More sparks no starting. The direct line had a blue arch and was slowly eating away at battery terminal. I checked wire from battery to solenoid and solenoid to started it all seems fine. No cracks or anything.

I'm lost here. Could it be a ground issue? Or a weak battery? And why won't my key even try to start it? Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks,

Elijah

So new battery and key lock cylinder? The starting system consists of 2 circuits, the low amperage signal/control side you engage via key sending the signal to the solenoid. This signal closes the high amperage circuit (thick wire from battery to solenoid to starter) using an electromagnet. The solenoid electromagnet can sometimes be old and stick and not work at all so I would test the function of the solenoid next. Make sure the high amp side (the two bigger studs usually) have continuity using a voltmeter when you are turning the key as if you are trying to turn over the car. remember that you need to remove the wires from the solenoid where you test continuity. If you have continuity, you know the solenoid works. (you can also hear an audible click).

Hope that helps!

 

[Elijah1989]

I will have to get a voltmeter. I'll pick one up today. The solenoid does not click or make any noise at all. I'm use to a dead battery and hearing the clicking sound. The PO replaced the solenoid. It looks brand new compared to rest of engine department. It I'll check just to make sure he didn't mess it up.

Thank you sir. I'll let you know how it goes.

Elijah

 

[Aldo94]

I will have to get a voltmeter. I'll pick one up today. The solenoid does not click or make any noise at all. I'm use to a dead battery and hearing the clicking sound. The PO replaced the solenoid. It looks brand new compared to rest of engine department. It I'll check just to make sure he didn't mess it up.

Thank you sir. I'll let you know how it goes.

Elijah

Yea voltmeter never hurts diagnosing electrical, sometimes a test light is sufficient if you know you have good connections and just have to check for power in a wire. Here is a link to a simple starter system diagram to give you a better visual of those circuits too. Good luck!

http://www.samarins.com/glossary/img/starting_system.gif

Oh, and as far as the click goes. With a good battery you will only hear one single click as you turn to start. With a dead one the current isnt strong enough to keep that electromagnet closed so it clicks back and forth very quickly. Make sure you don't keep the key turned (trying to start) for more than 5-10 seconds. More than 10 secs and you risk ruining that new starters coils (heats up from the amp draw).

 

[Elijah1989]

THanks for the diagram but that only confuses me more. Mine has a line from solenoid to starter and that's it. No other wires and starter doesn't have any other connections. I'll have to look for a fuse from ignition lock cylinder line to the solenoid since the starter doesn't come on at all when I turn the key.

It rained once I got home from work today so I didn't get a chance to play around with it. I'll be charging battery tomorrow to see if that helps. If not replace solenoid. If that doesn't work I'll have to trace wire from solenoid to ignition lock cylinder to check connections or frayed wire somewhere

 

[wildbill23c]

You most likely fried the starter solenoid when you arc'd the battery cable. You'll need a new starter solenoid then try it again.

 

[AndyB.]

That diagram isn't terribly useful for your application.

Once you get a voltmeter or test light, it will be a matter of seeing how far the voltage goes. Power across battery terminals, to the relay, other side of relay with key in start position, to starter in start position? Once you determine where the power stops, we can help you further diagnose:

 

[Aldo94]

That diagram isn't terribly useful for your application.

Once you get a voltmeter or test light, it will be a matter of seeing how far the voltage goes. Power across battery terminals, to the relay, other side of relay with key in start position, to starter in start position? Once you determine where the power stops, we can help you further diagnose:

Yea maybe not the best, thought it would get the general concept accross

 

[Elijah1989]

Turning they key there is no power going to starter side of solenoid. 9.5-11v on battery side of solenoid. Putting battery on a trickle charge. When you turn they key there was not transfer of power to starter. Replacing solenoid after battery is charged. After that it has to be something on the ignition cylinder to the solenoid right?

 

[AndyB.]

What is the voltage of the battery, terminal to terminal? A corroded cable (internally or externally) can increase resistance and drop voltage.

I would check for voltage from the switch signal going into the relay with the key turned to start position (small wire connected to relay post).

The lock cylinder doesn't do much, there is a switch it connects to (less than $20 part) that can sometimes fail.

 

[Elijah1989]

Battery is charging now. I just replaced the positive wire from battery to solenoid and replaced negative wire from battery to body to engine. So with a new solenoid, wires replaced, battery fully charged and a new starter hopefully that will weed out a lot of problems. It also has a brand new ignition lock cylinder when I first bought it.

I'll test volts at solenoid for the switch to start it to see what it's pulling here. That has to be the last thing correct? The rain is about to move in and I doubt battery will be done by then but if it is I'll tell you want the volts are.

If it doesn't crank once battery is fully charged it has to be between lock cylinder and solenoid. I think? If you can't tell I'm a rookie at this.

 

[AndyB.]

The lock cylinder doesn't really matter. It just moves a switch on the steering column that likely looks something like this:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/152335971422

 

[Elijah1989]

Ok. Battery fully charged, wires replaced, new solenoid and new starter. Didn't work. I only had one set of hands so I couldn't crank and test volts. It didn't start up. So I just went a head and bought the starter switch.

Now I have never seen one of these before. Where might it be located??

 

[Elijah1989]

Also. I'm not over looking a fuse or anything am I? I would hate to have spent this $250 on my B2 and it turn out to be a simple fuse.

 

[AndyB.]

If you take off the plastic on the steering column, it will be on the underside, below the lock cylinder.

There is also a neutral start safety switch that may be your problem--the intent is to make sure the clutch pedal is depressed before the starter will engage. I'd bypass that (as a test) before replacing the ignition switch. If you do a search on here for nss bypass, you should find instructions.