V8 swap questions.

[Curious Hound]

So, I've been seriously looking for an Explorer or Mountaineer as a V8 donor for my Ranger. I've been concentrating on 98- 01 models so I get the 5.0l with GTP40 heads and intake for the extra hp - 215 stock. That is 70hp more than my 3.0l was when new. A lot of people on FBMarketplace stink and never reply to potential buyers. So, my search has been difficult within these parameters.

What are your thoughts on the earlier 5.0l engines? If I get an earlier one, what would be involved in upgrading it to the newer heads and intake? Is it as easy as just adding the heads, intake, headers and using the newer ECU?

I'm also briefly toying with doing an LS swap. I see a 2002 5.3l LS with 4l60 and electric transfer case for $1100. But that would require an ecu and digital dash, probably in the neighborhood of an extra $2500. So, while it would be a fun build, it would be more expensive. Here is how it breaks down in my head. Remember, I'm as poor as most of you.

Explorer/Mountaineer swap Pro's;
I get engine, transmission, wiring jarness, ecu, OBDII instrument cluster and more for $1500 or less plus a few "freshen up parts" like water pump, dual sump oil pan, valve cover gaskets, etc. It all fits bevause it's an RBV setup. Easy wiring because it's all in the donor vehicle. Might use complete firewall and dash.

Additional work; engine mounts, new drive shafts, maybe steering shaft work for clearance. I already bought manual transfer case. Just have some fab work to make that fit the truck. Exhaust

Cons; probably more labor the way I plan on doing it. Any other cons?

LS swap ;
Pros; I would go with aftermarket ecu like Holley Terminator or FITech. Great flexibility in tuning. Would not be swapping firewall and complete dash assembly. Good aftermarket support for engine parts. Probably more Hp than the stock Explorer 5.0l. But I haven't looked it up yet. Get to do some cool tech articles for TRS.

Additional work; about the same - drive shafts, exhaust, maybe steering shaft clearance. Some kind of shifter for the 4L60 (probably buy a floor shifter $$)

Cons; cost $$$ - at least twice as much or more. Fitment? I have a lot of unknowns there. Overall length of engine/trans/t-case. Width in the engine bay? Should be able to make it work. And, of course, not Ford anymore.

Tell me your thoughts. Some of the moderators have already chimed in privately.

Edit; i just looked at the tech article again. It's only about a 5Hp dufference between the earlier and later Explorer engines. So, does it really make a difference?

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

What are your thoughts on the earlier 5.0l engines? If I get an earlier one, what would be involved in upgrading it to the newer heads and intake? Is it as easy as just adding the heads, intake, headers and using the newer ECU?

Stay roller cam. Most cars after around 85 were roller cam and about there the trucks were set up for it (had bosses in the block for the spider) but were still flat tappet until nearly the end. Easy swap on those. The spider is the big thing with 8 "legs" that put spring tension on the "dogbones" that hold the lifters straight in their bores.



If you don't have those bosses roller lifters are very expensive to upgrade to.

Explorer and Mustang use the HO firing order, trucks did not until maybe very late (IIRC they went to a cam similar to the Explorer cam near the end when they finally went roller cam) Camshaft and distributor gear material vary depending on if it is roller or flat tappet so watch that if you swap to a roller cam.

If you are going Explorer EFI they have a camshaft position sensor in place of the dizzy.

Head swap... depends. I have a '87 Crown Vic engine in mine, with E6 heads Ford put flat top pistons in them without valve reliefs. I did run E7 heads on it for awhile but it was right at the limit for valve clearance, if either the block or heads and been decked at all it wouldn't have worked. Being carbed I like how the "high swirl" E6 heads keep the fuel in suspension better at lower RPM's anyway so I swapped back.

Something with E7 heads are easily upgraded to the GT40 style heads though.

If you go too far back into the 70's the 302 had a goofy deck height (they raised the deck height to lower compression) so a EFI intake won't fit on those. Given that I assume you want more power than a 3.0 those boat anchors are best avoided anyway.

 

[Curious Hound]

Not that far back. I just messaged wuth a guy about a 96 Explorer. Only 105k miles. Looks clean in the pix. Only 2wd. So I'd have to find a ransmission. $800. The low miles and great overall condition have me very interested.

Oh, yeah. He actually communicates. Replied to my first question before I even clicked from messenger back to marketplace

 

[SenorNoob]

From the wikipedia article on the LS

"The 2000–2003 engines produced 285 hp (213 kW) and 325 lb⋅ft (441 N⋅m) of torque."

So a second 70hp more. Definitely nothing to sneeze at.

I know there are CHEAP wiring harnesses on EBay. Gotta say it'd be tempting. Isn't the 5.3 actually narrower than the 5.0? Could also look for the 6.0.

Any of those in manual? Also isn't the GM transfer case passenger side drop?

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

From the wikipedia article on the LS

"The 2000–2003 engines produced 285 hp (213 kW) and 325 lb⋅ft (441 N⋅m) of torque."

So a second 70hp more. Definitely nothing to sneeze at.

I know there are CHEAP wiring harnesses on EBay. Gotta say it'd be tempting. Isn't the 5.3 actually narrower than the 5.0? Could also look for the 6.0.

Any of those in manual? Also isn't the GM transfer case passenger side drop?

IIRC the 302 is a hair smaller. Not enough to really bother, the issue with V8 swapping is length moreso than width. A small block V8 isn't much longer than a 4cyl.

When GM went IFS they went driver side drop.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

Not that far back. I just messaged wuth a guy about a 96 Explorer. Only 105k miles. Looks clean in the pix. Only 2wd. So I'd have to find a ransmission. $800. The low miles and great overall condition have me very interested.

Oh, yeah. He actually communicates. Replied to my first question before I even clicked from messenger back to marketplace

800 bucks for a good running barely broken in V8 and a 8.8 is not a bad deal at all.

For free you get a good 4R70W to sell to a mustang guy and a pile of junk to give the neighbors something talk about until you scrap it.

 

[PlumCrazy]

Not that far back. I just messaged wuth a guy about a 96 Explorer. Only 105k miles. Looks clean in the pix. Only 2wd. So I'd have to find a ransmission. $800. The low miles and great overall condition have me very interested.

Oh, yeah. He actually communicates. Replied to my first question before I even clicked from messenger back to marketplace

I didn't think any V8 Explorers came in the 2wd flavor. I'd avoid the newer GT40P heads personally. The sparkplug angle sucks and really limits you manifold options. 95-96 should be the plain GT40 heads.

 

[Curious Hound]

800 bucks for a good running barely broken in V8 and a 8.8 is not a bad deal at all.

For free you get a good 4R70W to sell to a mustang guy and a pile of junk to give the neighbors something talk about until you scrap it.

We have an agreement to meet Monday afternoon. Trans has a leak at the pump seal, he says. Extra trans in the deal.

So, I may have a line on a 4r70w with electric t-case for $300.

 

[Curious Hound]

Also isn't the GM transfer case passenger side drop?

Photo clearly shows driver side drop. I was watching for that.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

Edit; i just looked at the tech article again. It's only about a 5Hp dufference between the earlier and later Explorer engines. So, does it really make a difference?

I would actively avoid the GT40P engines soley due to the header/exhaust issue.

 

[Curious Hound]

I would actively avoid the GT40P engines soley due to the header/exhaust issue.

Ok. On paper, that stuff all "sounds" better. Higher compression, better flowing heads, blah, blah, blah

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

Ok. On paper, that stuff all "sounds" better. Higher compression, better flowing heads, blah, blah, blah

Until a $300 header set gives you 15hp and you can actually almost feel the difference.

Compared to the multi-year lead time for the one guy that makes them for a grand a set for the GT40P's.

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However, factory manifolds or the like will allow the use of factory downpipes and cats which isn't nothing to scoff at either if you remember my front driveshaft debacle for a couple years.

 

[Curious Hound]

Until a $300 header set gives you 15hp and you can actually almost feel the difference.

Compared to the multi-year lead time for the one guy that makes them for a grand a set for the GT40P's.

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However, factory manifolds or the like will allow the use of factory downpipes and cats which isn't nothing to scoff at either if you remember my front driveshaft debacle for a couple years.

The factory manifolds I've been seeing look a lot more like headers. Curvy tubular pieces making funny loops. Maybe not as good as welded up tubing, if done right, but they are more like headers than cast log style manifolds. Maybe some kind of hybrid compromise.

 

[Shran]

I used a 89 Crown Vic 302 in mine and have no ragerts. It's actually only rated at 10hp more than the 2.9 I took out but has quite a bit more torque. Even with a lift and 35's I have no problem keeping up with traffic. I think you will be really happy with an Explorer 302!

Truck 302's aren't bad either. 85 up with fuel injection were rated for 190hp (+/- a bit depending in later years) so don't rule that entirely. The front accessories are just a much tighter fit so it would be to your benefit to use those parts from an Explorer 302 if you go with a truck engine. And... the word is out that Explorer 302's are good donor engines... so they command a premium! But truck 302's are not real valuable, full size guys want just about anything else. I would use one in a heartbeat and find a cheap blown up Explorer 302 to rob the front drive off of.

LS swaps are sort of uncharted waters here but you have my full support if you wanted to go that route... there are some donors to avoid but overall a good option because there is so much aftermarket support.

 

[scotts90ranger]

I would probably actually avoid the '98 up just to avoid PATS, and that GT40P thing, the '96-97 still have GT40 heads just don't have the goofy spark plug angle... I don't think it's a huge difference in performance...

I actually have a '97 Mountaineer "in stock" I got for cheap, I want to put that whole setup but convert the 4R70 to 4x2 to go in a mustang... I really need to strip that stinky thing and scrap the shell...