No crank / No start vacuum issue?

[JR2980]

Hey guys - I have a weird issue that I need some help with.

Last week my truck started having a little weird pulse in the brakes at low speed right as I come to a stop. Can also feel it a bit in the steering wheel which I thought was wierd since I believe the brakes are vacuum and not hydroboost.

I've been planning to do a little research over the holiday weekend to try and sort out the issue, but my hand was forced a bit tonight.

I got home from work tonight and shut the truck down - no issues at all. Was cleaning a few things out of the back seat and my 8 year old son was sitting in the driver's seat pretend driving.

Finished up 5 minutes later and get in to start the truck and nothing - no crank, no start, no click... nothing. Everything lights up like it should, but it won't do a thing when trying to start it.

Only thing I can see that different is that the brake pedal is really really hard - my son said he was pumping the brake and it's gotten really firm.

That together with the weirdness with the little bit of pulsing makes me wonder if it might be an issue with that.

Could a vacuum issue cause a no crank no start condition after pumping the brakes with engine off? I'm not intimately familiar with vacuum systems and how it all relates together.

Not really sure what to do at 8pm and I gotta work at 8 tomorrow morning.

Help!

 

[MikeG]

Doubt the brakes have anything to do with it not starting. At some point the master cylinder loses all the vacuum, but that still has nothing to do with the starting of the motor.

Usual suspects - make sure the shifter is all the way in park (if an automatic, try neutral also), battery cables, tight, and so on. Got a battery charger you can hook it up to, or jumper cables? Own a voltmeter?

 

[JR2980]

I don't think it's battery - starter solenoid isn't clicking up or anything. I didn't put a volt meter on it, but I did hook up my jump starter (it was right there by my shed) to it and no difference.

Its a manual, so I guess maybe it could be the clutch switch - if it's that, then I'm screwed for working tomorrow. No way I'm getting a new one and getting it swapped in tonight.

 

[MikeG]

If it's the clutch switch, you may be able to bypass it. I've done it before but not on a Ranger so .... kinda on your own there. Jumpered it in my Mazda three when I noticed having to really stop the clutch pedal to the floor, before it would crank.

What year is it? Someone will probably have an electrical book.

 

[JR2980]

If it's the clutch switch, you may be able to bypass it. I've done it before but not on a Ranger so .... kinda on your own there. Jumpered it in my Mazda three when I noticed having to really stop the clutch pedal to the floor, before it would crank.

What year is it? Someone will probably have an electrical book.

It's an 07 XLT 4.0 5spd

 

[MikeG]

Huh. My book is for a 97. So no idea if the same.

Kinda going out on a limb here, not sure I'm reading this entirely correctly, but on the 97 it looks like the switch would connect light blue/yellow with green/red?

Since my truck is an automatic, kinda trying to make sense of that from the wiring book. Could be totally wrong.

Another pair, T/LB (tan / light blue?) and LG (light green) may be for cruise control. Again, in the 97. Still a third pair I'm trying to decipher.

An automatic evidently jumpers all this shit....

 

[Bgunner]

The pulsating in the brake peddle is more likely the fact your rotors and or drums are out of round.

If you want the wiring diagram I'll take a snap shot of it for you since I have it in a book here. there is an ignition switch that could be the culprit also that is up under the dash by the steering column.

If the kid had a light on in the truck while playing in it could have drained the battery, how long did you leave the jump pack hooked up before trying to start it?

 

[RonD]

With engine off, Brake pedal will get hard to press after 3 presses of the pedal, thats normal for all vehicles with power brakes

There should be a THEFT light(looks like padlock) on the dash

When you turn key ON, that light should come on and then go OFF
If it Flashes then your Key did not "pass the test" and No Crank/No Start

This is called the PATS, passive anti-theft system

Try a different key if you have one

If not the wait 45-60 seconds before turning key OFF, flashing THEFT light will start flashing a 2 digit code, a "1" then 1 to 6
Get that code


Yes, your front brakes have been overheated and rotors are warped, its still safe to drive, but you will feel a pulsing when braking

 

[JR2980]

The pulsating in the brake peddle is more likely the fact your rotors and or drums are out of round.

If you want the wiring diagram I'll take a snap shot of it for you since I have it in a book here. there is an ignition switch that could be the culprit also that is up under the dash by the steering column.

If the kid had a light on in the truck while playing in it could have drained the battery, how long did you leave the jump pack hooked up before trying to start it?

The pulsating brakes is definitely not an out out of round issue. I know that feeling. It's definitely something mechanical - maybe ABS?

Definitely wasn't a battery issue - he was playing maybe 5 minutes. Light was on because I was on the passenger side with door open getting some stuff out from behind the seats. I thought that maybe, but I used a jump starter...or booster.... the kind that plugs in - whatever it's called. It can push enough juice to start my old 6.0 diesel with almost dead batteries.

The diagram would be great - I'm starting to think maybe clutch switch or ignition switch. It's really weird - everything lights up as it should, but the more I think about it, it almost acts like it would if the clutch wasn't depressed and you tried to start it.

 

[MikeG]

So evidently the third pair is for the starter....

EITHER red/light blue to pink (no anti-theft) OR white/pink to pink (anti-theft).

Maybe.....

 

[JR2980]

With engine off, Brake pedal will get hard to press after 3 presses of the pedal, thats normal for all vehicles with power brakes

There should be a THEFT light(looks like padlock) on the dash

When you turn key ON, that light should come on and then go OFF
If it Flashes then your Key did not "pass the test" and No Crank/No Start

This is called the PATS, passive anti-theft system

Try a different key if you have one

If not the wait 45-60 seconds before turning key OFF, flashing THEFT light will start flashing a 2 digit code, a "1" then 1 to 6
Get that code


Yes, your front brakes have been overheated and rotors are warped, its still safe to drive, but you will feel a pulsing when braking

I'll check the theft lock and see if that's the issue - I don't have another key so hopefully it's not that.

 

[adsm08]

Vacuum system issues will not cause a no-crank condition. Vacuum is vacuum. Starter is electrical. The extent of the relationship between the brake booster vacuum system and the starter's electrical system is that both names have vowels.

If the brake booster being depleted could cause a no crank you'd never get the thing started.

Find the smallest of the three terminals on the starter and jump power to it from the battery. Make sure it isn't in gear when you do that, or bad run-overy kind of things might happen.

When you put the key in run does the radio come on? Does it go off again when you push the key to start?

 

[Bgunner]

Here ya go, this is what I have for the starting system. Both manual and automatic trans.

 

[JR2980]

Okay - so I got a ride to work this morning but had a few minutes to mess with it before then so a little bit more information...

It's definitely not the battery

It's definitely not the PATS

When I turn the key on all the lights come on that should then all the lights go off that should - when I try to start it with clutch in i get one click and then the ABS light comes on.

I wouldn't think there's anything in the ABS system that would inhibit engine start is there? I suspect that's probably going to be related to the pulsating in the brakes that I'm going to need to address, but I don't know that that has anything to do with the no start.

At this point the best guess is probably the clutch switch - I didn't think about it this morning but when I get home tonight I'm going to try to start it without depressing the clutch and see if I still get that click.

Thanks guys... I really appreciate the help and the direction. It's really weird went from absolutely no symptoms related to the engine whatsoever to absolutely nothing at all within 5 minutes - I literally started the truck drove it around the back next to the shed to unload some stuff turned it off, then 5 minutes later try to start it and nothing.

 

[adsm08]

Test the starter like I told you to.