Will not start - Clutch, Neutral Safety....?

[cainine]

My truck sorta sputtered and died. This was nothing terribly unusual in cold weather and usually starts back up but not this time. There is power and a slight click but not a starter noise. The truck also is stuck in neutral. Any clues would be greatly appreciated.

88 Ranger
2.3L
5spd Manual
4X4

 

[RonD]

When you turn the key to start you hear a "click"?

If so the clutch safety switch is OK.

You either have a bad battery or bad cable.
If battery is low then alternator needs to be checked first

If trans is in Neutral and won't shift, engine off, then that would be a transmission problem, unrelated to any electrical issue.
1988 Ranger 2.3l 4x4 would have the first year of the Mazda M50D-R1 transmission, these are good transmissions.
There are no electrical parts in them at all, speedo cable and Reverse light switch, no Neutral switch or lockout

 

[zekew64]

I'm guessing corrosion is the cause. Check the starter solenoid on the starter (not the fenderwall) and the condition of your cables. I'm guessing that the cables are corroded through, and the solenoid can't carry enough voltage to the starter motor any longer.

 

[RangerDange]

I agree that it's probably connection problem or battery maybe starter. Double check that the battery terminals are tight. If you can move them by hand then there probably too loose. Also, probably stupid to mention but did you check that you have oil? I don't know about these motors tendencies to lock up but i have seen it happen on other vehicles, so maybe it's worth mentioning.

 

[zekew64]

Several things:

First, can you get the truck into gear w/engine off? That indicates a slave cylinder gone bad, or no fluid pressure (air) in the clutch hydraulic system.

Second, the fact you have power but no starter motor turnover means you have either: A) bad starter solenoid (on starter) or bad starter relay (firewall). Also, a bad ignition switch (steering column switch, NOT lock cylinder) can cause engine fail-to-start symptom.

 

[tomw]

You can bypass the ignition switch, wiring, and clutch/neutral safety switch by jumpering the small terminal on the starter relay on the inner fender to the large '+' terminal, the one connected directly to the battery post. Using a screwdriver or jumper wire, if you connect the small to +, the relay should close, and send power from the large input terminal to the large output terminal, and directly to the starter motor.
IF YOU DO THIS, BE SURE THE TRUCK IS NOT IN GEAR AND THE BRAKE IS SET, as if the battery, cables, relay and starter motor are good, the engine will crank over. If the key is ON, the engine may start. If the key is off, and the truck in gear, it will move, and run over any feet in the wrong place at the wrong time, or people ditto.
tom

 

[juggaloscorpio]

I am having this issue with my 1996 xlt 2.3L 5sp... crossing the "fender mounted solenoid" does engage the solenoid(audible and physically feel it clicking) but the starter does not engage. I do have to say that I need to look into the ignition switch wiring as there is a "jerry rigged" wire that runs through the firewall into the steering column somewhere.

 

[juggaloscorpio]

Pulled the ground wire and will clean the contact points tomorrow and install the new cable... why does the factory ground have 2 extra ground leads but the duralast replacement only have one?

 

[RonD]

The larger ground cable goes to the engine, because starter motor and alternator pass the most amps.
The smaller grounds go to rad support for headlight ground, and inner fender for electrics ground.
On some models there is only one smaller ground going to rad support and then a jumper ground from that to the inner fender.

There also needs to be a ground strap from engine to firewall, main ground for cab electrics, usually on the back of the head, and it is often left off if head is ever pulled for service, causing all kinds of odd ball electrical issues.
And a ground strap from inner fender or engine to the frame, main ground for tail lights and sometimes fuel pump.

All Body parts and frame are painted first and then assembled, so being bolted together doesn't mean a good ground, and the body sits on the frame on rubber washers/bumpers, so there is no reliable ground without the ground straps.
Engine and trans also sit on rubber mounts so no reliable ground there between body or frame, so Ground straps are needed.

You may need to add a jumper ground wire from second wire ground point to single wire ground point.

 

[juggaloscorpio]

Thanks for the reply

I pulled the main battery ground/negative wire and brought it into work today and found that it does not OHM out unless it is being wiggled. Thus telling me there is either a break in the wiring or excessive corrosion in the insulation. I have already bought the new negative/ground wire from AZ so it is no biggie to replace/install that.

I am going to wire brush all the contact points for a better metal-to-metal contact.

My old wire(I am guessing it is factory as the previous owner does not recall ever replacing it). It has 4 points of contact: battery terminal, on the rad support(1st in line), on the frame(half way down the wire/2nd in line), and on the engine block(end of wire).

The new wire only has 3 points of contact: battery terminal, on the rad support(which I have to butt connect/crimp in a ring terminal in order to connect it) and the engine block.

Would I be correct in assuming that I can just make the 3rd ground contact(frame ground) and run it directly to the negative battery terminal?

I am taking my DVM home and will do further testing for proper grounding and that 24V is being supplied at all applicable points.

**Side note, I have already went ahead and replaced the fender mounted starter solenoid, battery(it was dead and had a bad core/wont charge), and will be replacing the ignition switch and ignition cylinder today. It seems as if someone tried to jumper or bypass something from the ignition as there is a wire(non factory) running from behind the steering column(wire clipped to a roughly 12/14g red/blue striped wire) through the firewall and to the fender mounted solenoid where a pink/blue striped wire is on the "S" terminal. I will be making sure the engine actually rotates with the crank pulley manual turn after work today as well to rule out a seized engine.**

When I pulled the starter, I did not see a grounding strap for the starter body so I might have to fix that as well. Were would be the best place to run said wire?

I tried to upload a pic of both wires but I got a message about some kind of security token missing and it wont let me upload them.

 

[RonD]

System is 12volts not 24volts

I would just run added ground strap from frame to existing ground on rad support, not to the battery.

The starter motor is grounded, like the alternator, to the bell housing and engine block by its bolts.
The larger Negative battery cable should be connected to the engine block or often to one the starter motor bolts.


The added wire through firewall is to bypass the Neutral safety switch which prevents starter motor from being engaged unless clutch pedal is in all the way or if automatic shifter must be in Park or Neutral

 

[juggaloscorpio]

Lunch break work... turned the crankshaft pulley manually and the motor is not seized... will get the ground contacts and wire installed after work and update again

And yes I meat 12v, don't know why I put 24v lol

 

[juggaloscorpio]

Update time!!
I used some wire brushes and cleaned all the paint, dirt, and gunk away until it was fully exposed metal. I then crimped in a new rad support post wire with ring terminal to the new ground wire. I made a new ground wire with 8ga wire for the frame ground and attached it to the rad support post. And finally cleaned and mounted the engine block ground location and attached the end of the ground to it.

Using my DVM, I verified a good solid ground and ohm'd it out on all points of contact, so now I can rule out a bad ground. I also cleaned the oil and gunk from the bell housing and verified the starter body has a good ground.

Using the DVM again I verified my new battery has a full charge at 12.5V. Verified there is power to the fender solenoid at 12.5v. Verified there is 12.5V at the main power wire for the starter. I ohm'd out the starter ignition wire from starter mounted solenoid to the "C" bracket type wire on the fender solenoid. Accidentally made sure the starter is not froze.(I incidentally crossed the ignition wire and the main power wire on the starter and it spun up lol) I then made sure I still had power inside the cab with the lights/dinger/dash being lit up.

Even aftet all of that, I still have no crank. I can hear the relay under the hood engage and disengage while turning the key to on/off positions.

I ohm'd out all the main/large fuses under the hood and all checked out good. But when I went inside the cab, I found 2 fuses blown... fuse 17(15A) and fuse 24(10A). I do not have any mini fuses to replace them so that will have to wait until tomorrow to replace. I also did not get a chance to get the ignition switch or ignition cylinder today either. I am going to look around and see if I can find information for those fuses, unless someone can tell me what they are for in the meantime.

Not giving up just yet because I know the truck ran about 2yrs ago but has been sitting ever since.

I would hate to put it in the shop and pay a ridiculous amount of money to fix it since I only paid $400 for it. Any other suggestions are very welcome and much appreciated.

 

[juggaloscorpio]

MAJOR UPDATE!!!

Apparently when the crappy shade tree who did the jumper wire from the ignition to the fender solenoid switch, they added the original slip on style wire as well to the solenoid. I am guessing that the factory wire is grounded, there is a break in the wire, or it has a bad CPPS which is why the jumper it.(I am getting a new CPPS installed in the coming weeks and will find out if that fixes the factory wiring issue)

Either way, I removed the original slip on style wire and hooked up the rigged wire and viola, it is now up and running. It has a terrible, terrible idle but that could just be that it needs a tune up(plugs, wires, oil flush/change, new fuel filter, etc., etc.) and new gas. I have a fuel pump assembly on its way since the current one does not tell how much gas is in the tank. I also noticed that I need to replace the filler hose as the base is pretty much shredded(cracked all the way around where it gets clamped).

I love the site and thanks for the help/abundance of information!!!!

 

[RonD]

Thanks for the update