Where the heck is the oxygen sensor ??

[ngzcaz]

No, no, you missed the point.. If you just take it out and cap it, it wouldnt mean a thing. The idea is to make the COMPUTER think its running rich thereby leaning the mixture a bit. And since when does running lean make sludge ? Its the opposite thats correct. If your exhaust is black, you are running rich, simple as that and your oxygen sensor isnt doing what it should. You can replace the sensor, look at the exhaust, looks clean and STILL be running rich. The cat just cleaned up your mess before it exited the tailpipe.
The purpose of the cat is to burn the junk before it exits the exhaust, the problem is the engine has already done what it could and its up to the cat to do the rest. If one leans the mixture ( think computer ) the cat has less to burn, lasts longer as well as the oxygen sensor and it just may help a bit at the pump.
AND......all you guys running to the store for aluminum foil, I want a piece of the action. I mean how cheap does it get even if it doesnt work ?

 

[Apollo]

come on all you haters. Theres a reason they call it trial and error. ngzcaz just keep trying all the wacky and weird things you can think of until you find something that works, just cause it seems like a dumb idea doesn't mean it will turn out to be one.

 

[89REDRANGER]

Sounds like a good way to burn up a motor and make the computer go into fits of rage causing it to run like crap. Run a motor lean, it gets got, efficiancy drops, oil breaks down, air expands, pistons and rings burn, and then you have a nice chunk of scrap that will cost lots of gas money to replace. If the motor was meant to run lean for gas savers they would have made it that way. It's made to run rich enough to keep it from burning up. Fool with it too much and you'll kill it.

People that will try anything to save a dime while risking thousands of dollars for repairs make me laugh my ass off. I make a second income off people like you every month.

Burn it up. You'll give someone a nice check to go on vacation with. Maybe your neighbor down the street will change out that motor for half the price of a shop. That's still over $30/HR. All that to save five bucks a week on gas.

 

[samsonitesamsonite]

If it doesn't work, which it won't, it won't be cheap, the repairts willl set you back a bit.

 

[MAKG]

come on all you haters. Theres a reason they call it trial and error. ngzcaz just keep trying all the wacky and weird things you can think of until you find something that works, just cause it seems like a dumb idea doesn't mean it will turn out to be one.

Thinking is BAD. Try every lame idea ever mentioned because someday, monkeys really WILL fly out of your butt.

This is not a magic device. It does very specific things that SOME people -- not Apollo and not the original poster -- understand.

Want to make your truck fast with great fuel mileage? Drop it off a cliff. That's infinite fuel mileage. Hey, you can't say it won't work unless you try it, right?

What in the HELL happened to simple thought. This is not difficult.

And calling this "hating" is exactly equivalent to advocating stupidity. No, you do not have the right to be free of criticism about really stupid assertions you made.

 

[434fireboy52]

What

all your going to do is make it run rich! what is foil going to do?

 

[ngzcaz]

From what I've been reading it will SLIGHTLY fool the computer into running a bit lean side. No one has posted that it would " burn up " the engine and likewise, no one has posted that it had any deleterious effects. If some of you are of the opinion that you trust Detroit, the oil cartel, and the car manufacturers that they are producing the best product they can ( read that the Pinto, gas tanks INSIDE the passenger compartment of the old Chevy trucks, the Corvair, etc etc How many do you want me to name ? ) then so be it. I happen to be a bit more skeptical.
I do find it interesting however, that people can post a definitive conclusion on something they have never tried or had any experience with.. : - )

 

[rickcdewitt]

HOW? wrapping the sensor head with tin foil,or the body of the sensor?do you know anyone who actually is running this with ACTUAL mixture data?

 

[MAKG]

Running the engine lean will make it detonate. You may think that's not a big deal, but it's VERY EXPENSIVE to replace the pistons you break. Detonation cracks the top compression ring land, which leads to excessive blow-by, scoring, and oil use.

But WRAPPING the sensor in tinfoil will do exactly nothing. Someone read a Wikipedia article on electrochemistry and didn't understand it. It might fool the computer if you put it in SERIES. Just wrapping the ground in it will cause corrosion and nothing else.

But fooling the computer and expecting it to do the right thing is a bit like telling a blind pedestrian that a traffic light is green when it isn't. You have no reasonable expectation that it will do anything close to sensible. THINK about it for a moment.

It's a control system. Whether or not you trust Detroit (without thinking about things like CAFE standards and other statutory requirements), thinking that you can one-up an army of engineers with a simple modification that the factory could have gotten off the same Internet you did (you don't think these guys live on Mars, do you?) is exceedingly foolish.

No one rednecks a control system. It wouldn't work. At all.

 

[ngzcaz]

That may well be true, however, by your own tactic remarks, its obvious you haven't tried it and therefore are offering opinions not facts. Please be clear, I don't know if it will work or not but wrapping the OUTSIDE not the inside would seem to keep the heat inside instead of letting it dissipate on the outside. One would then reason the computer might think it reached its optimal point sooner and lean the engine somewhat SLIGHTLY. Good heavens its easy enough to pull a plug or hear the detonation taking place. Again, even if it does work, I certainly dont expect to double the mileage, but anything that helps would be good news and my personal kick in the pants to the Arabs and the greedy oil business in general.
I dont know how old you are, but I think you seriously underestimate back yard mechanics and individualistic effort. A lot of styling and performance gains came from the backyard racing guys. And these " Army of engineers " are they same ones that put the gas tank in back of the driver's seat in my 1972 Chevy pick up separated by an 1/8 inch of waferboard ? Or designed the infamous 2.9 heads ? I could list dozens of stupid and sometimes fatal mistakes these " Army of engineers " have made over the years. I've seen posts on this website from guys that improved the factory product from everything from engines to the differentials. I've been bumping distributor timing forever and running these vehicles for a hundred thousand miles with no ill effects. Keep in mind these are SLIGHT changes, not ones that start making the engine knock or hard to start from the timing change.
And, I will post the results. If it does nothing, OK I gave it a shot. If it ruins something, its my vehicle. I'm not suggesting anyone else try it. There are other things I might give a shot... And you are correct.. I dont trust Detroit to give me the best product they can. Not by a long shot.
Long live American individuality and the willingness to try something thats a bit different from the mainstream. Most great inventions came from persistence, a little luck and some by accident.

 

[samsonitesamsonite]

you obviously do not have the slightest idea to what a sensor (02 in this case) actually does. Do not try to make those who atually know better look wrong. One does not always have to try something to be abe to KNOW the results. You want to break new ground? First learn some FACTS, and then try something that has the possibility of working.

Many of us are back yard mechanics, other such as myself are ASE certified, and others are engineers, (MAKG), I guarantee you when you come up with an idea that actually has the possibility of working, everyone here will back you in trying it, there is nothing more that we would like that a cheap fix that would cure out mileage woes, but there is no such fix. Listen to those with knowledge on how these things work.

 

[MAKG]

It pisses me off every time I hear that on this board.

You do NOT have to try EVERYTHING to understand it. That's how a toddler works. Adults have reasoning skills.

Would you jump off a cliff to find out if it hurts? Would you piss in your fuel tank? Put your nuts in jumper cables?

Heat has very little to do with oxygen sensor operation. It needs to be above 600 deg to function, and this is not difficult with just the normal exhaust stream. It doesn't matter how much higher until it starts to melt.

So you can try to make up flaming BS to rationalize other BS, or you can actually try to understand the system at hand. BEFORE you break stuff.

Do you think the sun is hot? Has anyone FELT it? So, is that an opinion or fact? Ask an experienced welder before you make it obvious you don't understand.

I can tell you a FACT that the surface of the sun is about 6000 deg C, even though I've never been there to touch it. Think about what a fact is for a moment.

I have a 1972 Chevy as well. THINK about why the fuel tank is behind you. The cab is the safest, best protected part of the truck, FAR FAR FAR safer than where it went in 1973. It's not at all the biggest problem with that truck. That would be the rear window location. You don't care if your cab gets lit on fire because the back of your skull is in contact with your nose. But none of that matters for the point at hand. This is not a control system.

 

[ngzcaz]

Is that Centigrade or Celsius ? Next time you take a trip, let me know and we'll measure it then we'll know for sure. Nothing you have said indicates you have tried this only that it takes 600 degrees for it to work. And you may be be right but dont piss on someones parade for trying it.
You probably were one of the many that thought the WMD actually existed when it in actuality it was a bluff by Saddam to keep Iran from starting another war. That too was a " fact " that didn't turn out well for us.
And if you read carefully I included no b.s. just opinions and my personal experiences. Show me the b.s. if you can. Bull s. in my opinion is deliberately mis conveying information for whatever purpose. There is none in anything I've stated.
AND.... if the fuel tank was so safe behind your head, why did they move it ? Could it have been the people that were burned alive and families filed suit ? Do you actually believe that was the place for a fuel tank ? A simple yes or no will do nicely. Thank God you aren't in Detroit. What an idiotic remark to make ( again my opinion, not b.s. )

 

[kunar]

so have you done it yet? did it work? if you put half as much effort into your truck as you have at bitching about how nobody likes your idea, you could have a whole set of before and after mpg figures to prove that it didnt do anything useful...

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

The cat isn't a garbage disposal for unburnt gas, if it gets too much raw fuel it will melt down and plug up the exhuast. It is very noticable when this happens.

I think getting the foil just right would be nearly impossible, too much and it won't be able to adjust enough and light a CEL, maybe go into closed loop where it doesn't care about the 02 readings. If you use too little it won't make a difference. Whether they set these things for optimum milage from the factory is open for debate, but they do set them up for longitivity to keep warrenty repairs down.


MAKG, there was a young couple in a town a couple miles from my hometown that rolled their old Chevy pickup a couple years ago, truck was upside down and caught fire, they couldn't get out as the truck burned up, the fire went straight to the cab as that is where the tank was and they were killed in the ensuing fire. I can't say it is the best idea I have heard of to have the tank in the cab, it is in our IH pickup and I can't say it is the most comfortable thought to have while driving it. I would rather it be between the frame rails, alot harder for anything to get to it there short of getting hung up on something.

The Pinto deal was overblown, they made a bolt extra long to cut down on production time and it would puncture the tank if it was rearended. They fixed the problem and the media still had a heyday with it anyway.