Wheel hop

[sgtsandman]

The newer rangers that have locking diffs from the factory. They are electric, you press a button and it locks everything up. Also you have hydraulic or pneumatic versions that are aftermarket.


I've always found that FWD cars were pretty terrible in the snow. By virtue of the engine being on top of the drive wheels, you do have more traction from the get go. However, a RWD with added weight over the rear is 40x better. Once you loose traction in a FWD car, you loose all control and you're just along for the ride. Especially in an automatic where it's harder to get the trans in neutral to let them coast and regain traction. With a RWD car, even if you loose traction on your drive wheels, you can still control the direction you are going since it's harder to get the non driven wheels to slip. You let off the gas a bit or push in the clutch and the rear wheels will just fall back into line with the front and straighten you back up.

The average person likes FWD vehicles just like they like all season tires. They are cheaper and usually will get them from point A to point B, The FWD just allows them to get by with the all seasons better. Right up until the tires lose traction and they run right into that tree or pole directly in front of them that they were trying not to hit.

 

[James Morse]

Maybe that was part of the idea behind the free-wheeling because if you let off the gas it would be the same as pushing in the clutch.
Later ones didn't have it, but maybe I clutched in such situations (always had standard trans). All I know is a few times I was in hairy situations, but never went off the road. The worst is if you are in a downhill off-camber turn.
Of course we always had 2 sets of tires so we ran a decent snow tire. Changing them twice a year was just habit.
I do remember one of those downhill turn situations with inches of fresh snow and I thought for sure it was a goner but finessed it through. After, my 2nd ex said "I thought we were going off the road" I was like "me too".
Those little 2-lane forest roads don't give you lots of room to screw up.
Front drive can pull you out of a skid by applying power. It's a different technique. There you basically don't care what the back is doing so much, it'll eventually line up. But they were light in back, and if you had a choice of putting your better pair of tires on the front or rear, they do better on the rear as that breaks loose first.
That's my experience anyway.
It's all ancient history now though.
Mustang 5.0 could break the rear loose with no problem (not talking snow here) especially in rain. I know this from track time with it. That's an example of a lot of power with not much weight over it. One time I was passing a 5.0 in a Saab 900 in the rain and some girl was driving the 'stang and obviously didn't know what she was doing because she punched it and the thing came right around and smacked my right door with its nose. Saab needed a door skin, but door still opened and closed and the window worked. I stopped by the Ford dealer later which was, like, right there, and asked him if the 'stang was damaged bad, he said "damaged? frame is bent - it's totalled". It's just something you never want to do is punch it when the road is wet, at least with the older 'stangs they would be sidways in a second.

 

[James Morse]

Cheap? 2000 Aero cost $42k which in today's dollars is $73k I don't call that cheap. On the other hand it was the fastest production car built that year.
Probably part of the reason they went belly up was the cost. But I think GM had a lot to do with that.

Maybe they were looking at the tree. I remember in race school they told us you tend to drive where you are looking so look where you want to go not where you don't want to go.

I don't have much experience driving non-Saab front wheel drive at all. Except Fiesta, but that was a race car so it never saw snow.

Other half's dad gave her his '02 Lexus RX300 with 260,000 miles. I think it has AWD, probably ok in snow. Which we just about never get where I am now.
They must have done maintenance on it, fluids looked good, didn't see any leaks, runs nice, everything works. It could never have made it that many miles without stuff being kept up.
She (other half) doesn't trust it because of the miles but I tell her, the vehicle doesn't know how many miles it has, if maintenance was done, no reason to not trust it.

 

[sgtsandman]

The key word was cheaper, not cheap. A Yugo, Kia Rio, or Geo Metro is cheap.

When it comes to emergency handling, a RWD based vehicle is easier to recover in. You can do it in a FWD vehicle but how many people practice in either?

Each drive lay out and even different vehicles with the same drive layout handle differently.

The only way to find out is to practice from time to time. I try to do that at least once a year in a snow covered parking lot for a refresher.

The 2011 and 2019 handle differently in the same conditions, so I get to do it twice. I think it’s because of the differences in configuration. Supercab with a longer bed vs a Supercrew with a shorter bed. Regardless, they handle a bit differently.

When I has the CR-V, it was FWD based AWD. So sometimes goosing the throttle was indeed the answer to the problem. Other times, it was putting the transmission in neutral and just riding it out. Both have saved my bacon.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

I got along fine with my fwd.

Just like fighter jets thrust vectoring is a thing.

 

[sgtsandman]

I got along fine with my fwd.

Just like fighter jets thrust vectoring is a thing.

I’ve gotten through stuff with a good set of winter tires on a RWD vehicle that had plenty of FWD vehicles stuck on the side of the road. I might have been crabbed sideways going up the hill because of the open differential but I was still going!

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

As long as I wasn't high centered I could go.

Didn't have anything close to snow tires either.

 

[don4331]

I have seen more 4wd/AWD stuck/wrapped around posts than FWD & RWD vehicles combined.

The 4wd crowd seems to forget that they can't corner/stop any faster and then suddenly find out that physics applies to them too.​

With the way our snow packs down into ice at intersections, the FWDs do much better than RWD as just about everyone tries to get by with all seasons.

 

[00t444e]

[

I have seen more 4wd/AWD stuck/wrapped around posts than FWD & RWD vehicles combined.

The 4wd crowd seems to forget that they can't corner/stop any faster and then suddenly find out that physics applies to them too.​

With the way our snow packs down into ice at intersections, the FWDs do much better than RWD as just about everyone tries to get by with all seasons.

4x4 does help you stop though.

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

[

4x4 does help you stop though.

How does that work?

 

[Roert42]

Engine braking works better in 4WD

 

[fastpakr]

Engine braking works better in 4WD

If that were true, it still wouldn't change anything about traction between tires and the surface underneath.

One of he biggest advantages of 4wd in snow and icy conditions is that you don't have to rely on momentum and can take things at a rational pace.

 

[00t444e]

How does that work?

Gets rid of the front brake bias, since both axles are locked together mechanically by the driveshafts and transfer case when you hit the brakes both axles will lock up at the same time where as in 2wd the front wheels will lock up much sooner. Being in 4wd also allows you to apply more braking force without locking up and skidding since all the wheels are getting even braking pressure.

 

[fastpakr]

That's ridiculous.

 

[pjtoledo]

I've had similar results, even way back with the 1977 F150.
now try modulating the brakes to keep the wheels rolling instead of locking them up.

in my experiences ABS works great on wet pavement, not so great on snow & ice.
there isn't enough friction on ice the get the wheels rolling again so they can (try to) grab.