What Can You ACTUALLY Tow? Payload -Tow Capacity

[wildbill23c]

Did you read the very last sentence of my post? (that you also quoted)

The new ones use the same numbers which makes no sense because the payload capacities are different between manual/automatic trucks. Looking at the brand new Tacoma TRD "Offroad" manual VS auto they claim 6400lbs towing capacity with either transmission. I think that's only a recent thing older Toyotas didn't use the same numbers, like every other automaker has down rated their manuals. I guess Toyota thinks their clutches aren't gonna fail with today's people with the lack of driving skills to not smoke a clutch towing that weight LOL.

Regardless whatever the stickers on the vehicle say is what a vehicle can legally tow, regardless what someone thinks they can do, its what they legally can do.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

The new ones use the same numbers which makes no sense because the payload capacities are different between manual/automatic trucks. Looking at the brand new Tacoma TRD "Offroad" manual VS auto they claim 6400lbs towing capacity with either transmission. I think that's only a recent thing older Toyotas didn't use the same numbers, like every other automaker has down rated their manuals. I guess Toyota thinks their clutches aren't gonna fail with today's people with the lack of driving skills to not smoke a clutch towing that weight LOL.

Regardless whatever the stickers on the vehicle say is what a vehicle can legally tow, regardless what someone thinks they can do, its what they legally can do.

May or may not be a reliability issue but when I was looking at tacos a few years ago the manual was not available in LWB (crew cab 6' bed) trucks.

Thanks to modern voodoo the computer also rev matches to hold the rpm, it might help prevent shock loading the clutch and transmission too.

 

[wildbill23c]

May or may not be a reliability issue but when I was looking at tacos a few years ago the manual was not available in LWB (crew cab 6' bed) trucks.

Thanks to modern voodoo the computer also rev matches to hold the rpm, it might help prevent shock loading the clutch and transmission too.

That's still the case, you can only get the manual with the crew cab short bed...which throws out my idea of getting one, I'd want the access cab with the 6 foot bed and manual, and now you can only get the manual with the TRD Sport package I believe. Wish they would have kept it with the lower end models too.

Nissan's Frontier no longer has the manual either...and the Ranger doesn't offer it at all. Guess I'm gonna have to keep my 87 Ranger long bed LOL.

I wonder if that rev matching helps with shock load or not, I'd think it possibly could as there would be less of a sudden shock to the transmission and clutch that way I'd think, or at least less slippage too.

I don't mind shifting gears, but finding a vehicle you can shift gears in anymore is getting pretty cut down unfortunately. Is it because people are lazy, or is it just lack of sales? I'm guessing lack of sales because people are lazy LOL. Granted I live out in the country so traffic isn't all that bad, even driving in downtown Boise isn't all that bad with a manual transmission...but I'd suspect places like LA, and other very large cities driving around with a manual is just plain annoying LOL. I'd also think that doing so would put a huge amount of wear and tear on the clutch with all that stop and go.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

I wonder if that rev matching helps with shock load or not, I'd think it possibly could as there would be less of a sudden shock to the transmission and clutch that way I'd think, or at least less slippage too.

I don't mind shifting gears, but finding a vehicle you can shift gears in anymore is getting pretty cut down unfortunately. Is it because people are lazy, or is it just lack of sales? I'm guessing lack of sales because people are lazy LOL. Granted I live out in the country so traffic isn't all that bad, even driving in downtown Boise isn't all that bad with a manual transmission...but I'd suspect places like LA, and other very large cities driving around with a manual is just plain annoying LOL. I'd also think that doing so would put a huge amount of wear and tear on the clutch with all that stop and go.

Emissions probably plays into both the rev matching and the dwindling supply of manual transmissions in the world.

 

[4x4junkie]

That's still the case, you can only get the manual with the crew cab short bed...which throws out my idea of getting one, I'd want the access cab with the 6 foot bed and manual, and now you can only get the manual with the TRD Sport package I believe. Wish they would have kept it with the lower end models too.

The TRD Sport is available with Access Cab, 6' bed, and manual transmission (but 4x4 only, no 2WD manual is offered AFAIK).



The lack of manuals does not seem to be because of lack of demand...

Case in point:
Toyota, for whatever reason, purposely limits production of all stickshift Tacomas to 5% of total production, and their selling prices show this vividly (dealers are almost completely unwilling to negotiate on a stickshift truck, but will readily knock thousands off the sticker of an auto truck with little haggling. They know well, someone who reeeaaallly wants that stickshift, they will pony up for it. Same goes on the used market, you'd be damn lucky to find a stickshift Tacoma for much less than new sticker unless it's 10+ years old or has some sort of problem with it). If manuals were more readily available in all small pickups, I believe the take rate would be somewhere closer to 10-15% (at least going by conversations I've had with friends & family).

I cannot remember Toyota ever derating their manuals for towing, but I'll concede I never paid that close attention until some time into production of the 2nd-gen Tacoma.
Clutches are considered wear items anyway (much like brakes), so unless one were to go out at less than 5K miles or something, I doubt most dealers would warranty a worn clutch (so the idiots who can't figure out how to use a clutch I wouldn't think would be something on a mfgr's radar when lowering tow ratings or restricting their availability).

As for payload, it looks to be a 50lb difference between the auto & stick (not very significant IMO, although the Tacoma's payload ratings are already nothing to write home about).

And FWIW, this lack of stickshifts thing is ONLY a U.S. phenomenon... Automatic transmissions are the odd duck in nearly every other part of the world.

Compared to the spectacular A4LD?

lol
Yeah really... nothing at all in a RBV could really be considered 'reliable' before the M5OD came around.
What I've come to find though is the A4LD's problems seem to come mainly from lack of adequate cooling. I've seen an A4LD take quite a bit of abuse as long as it's kept cool (under 190° or so). I suspect on paper the A4LD likely penciled out stronger, but it's cooling issues got the best of most of them.

 

[Roert42]

I travel a lot for work. Is rental agencies Do Not have any manual cars. Not by special request, they just do not have them.

In Europe, if you absolutely have to have an automatic transmission, you need to specifically tell them when reserving it, and it will likely cost substantially more because it will be some kind of luxury sedan. Vs taking the base model Renult or what other pos with a manual trans.

 

[don4331]

The automatic's planetary gearing is a lot stronger than the input and output shafts and gears in a manual, so they rate the automatics much higher than a manual.

Did you read what I wrote?

I tried to make it clear - the planetaries in 5R44E are actually weaker then the input/output gears in an M5ODR-1. Ford saved the cost of 2 planets in the planetary cluster of the 5R44 compare to the 5R55 which better matched the torque output of the 2.3/3.0.

The new engines/drivetrains, i.e. Tacoma, have enough sensors, that Toyota can limit power in lower gears (and probably from neutral drop) to protect either transmission from ham fisted drivers.

The place the M5ODR-1 is probably most susceptible when towing in 5th. If Mazda cut the helix angle of the ~2:1 input gears and ~2:1 1st gear cluster (to get the ~4:1 1st gear ratio), the angle is very wrong for the 2:5 OD gear cluster. So, putting lots of power through 5th creates a lot of load on both main & countershaft bearings, both linear and axially, which in turn creates lots of heat - neither of which the Ranger transmission is designed for. Which is why Ford recommends in the Owner's manual* not using 5th while towing.

Again with 2020 electronic nannies, Toyota can make the truck "gutless" in 5th while towing, in effect forcing a shift into 4th.**

Automatic user have Tow/Haul labelled on the shifter these days.

*Who reads the Owner's manual.

**This would be a reason manufacturer's don't like the "fake trailer plugs" to disable the auto stop/start. They have put a bunch of other code in place around trailer towing and the "fake trailer" is messing with that.

 

[don4331]

I travel a lot for work. Is rental agencies Do Not have any manual cars. Not by special request, they just do not have them.

In Europe, if you absolutely have to have an automatic transmission, you need to specifically tell them when reserving it, and it will likely cost substantially more because it will be some kind of luxury sedan. Vs taking the base model Renult or what other pos with a manual trans.

I forgot that - not just Europe, in Australia mate, you would get manual a lot of the time. And Ford Down Under rated the Ranger the GVWR/GCWR the same for hauling/towing - which typically gave the manual a 17kg/40lb advantage.

 

[sgtsandman]

When towing with the 2011, I never put it into OD/5th gear. I was taught a long time ago that is a big no-no. It puts too much stress on the the transmission. Now, that could be a terrain related thing since my entire driving life has been in the Appalachian Mountain chain.

 

[TonkaMan]

When towing with the 2011, I never put it into OD/5th gear. I was taught a long time ago that is a big no-no. It puts too much stress on the the transmission. Now, that could be a terrain related thing since my entire driving life has been in the Appalachian Mountain chain.

I never use OD in my 1997 when towing either. If I do, the slightest hill means I start losing speed. Never have a problem in 4th gear though. Truck was originally rated at 1500 lbs. while the autos were rated at 2500 lbs. Never had a problem towing a 2500 lb. trailer. Just gotta be willing to accept a very slow take-off with the 2.3L. I always assumed the difference was because Ford didn't want too many warranty claims of inexperienced drivers toasting the clutch. If you're towing over the recommendation, Ford has grounds to deny the claim and make you pay for the clutch replacement.

 

[Dirtman]

The OD/off button on the 98-2011 rangers also gives you more engine braking. It keeps the TCC engaged longer.

 

[Roert42]

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[Roert42]

Clear as day.

 

[Dirtman]

 

[pjtoledo]

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