weird problem-puzzled

[rangerrager]

ok so i will be driving my truck and stop somewhere after a drive shut my truck off go inside and come back out and start my truck.but when i start it it starts for a second stumbles and dies then wont start.everytime this happens to me i have to let it sit for about a half hour before it will start again.it is doing this to me a decent amount and i cant drive the truck because of this.
please help
thanks
ryan doyle

 

[nitrofan1]

Well, if this was a mid 80's 2.8L I'd say have the ignition module tested. Hmmm..... Did this start all at once or has it been going on for a while? Does it happen all the time or just every once in a while?

 

[rangerrager]

it happens a couple times a week and it has been doing this for while now...i cant drive the truck as a daily driver because i never know when its gonna leave me stranded for a half hour

 

[BlackBII]

When it does this.....is it a Fuel or Spark problem?

Once you know if it is a fuel issue or a spark issue, it'll be a little easier to go on to the next step.

 

[rangerrager]

ok so im thinking it is a fuel problem because when i crank it ,it kicks a little like it wants to start wich would mean its getting spark. but yet again when i hit the nipple on the fuel rail fuel comes out so its getting fuel as well i beleive..what do u think?

 

[BlackBII]

Will it fire up if you spray some starter fluid in the intake?

 

[rangerrager]

well not sure..last time it did this i went home to get the starter fluid and when i came back it started so i didnt get to try ..so i put the starter fluid in the truck for next time it does it i can try

 

[BlackBII]

Yeah, I say give that a try. If it wont start, but then will fire up with some starter fluid, I would suspect that the fuel delivery is the issue.

You said you had fuel coming out of the schrader valve, but I wonder how much psi...

 

[nitrofan1]

Most of the time in my experience fuel fuel system works or it doesn't. Take the fuel pump. It's very rare that it works some of the time. Either it works or it's broke. Fuel pressure regulator also. No codes?

 

[nitrofan1]

Try this: The throttle position sensor. In Borg Warner the part # is EC3312P. It runs around $28 at Advance auto. I have seen those act bad some of the time. The computer won't know what to set the throttle at and can cause a no start issue.

 

[AllanD]

I've answered this before and it's a fuel problem more
than a fuel system problem, but the design of the fuel system
is partially responsible.

the common complaint invariably comes from someone with a 1990-94 4.0.

the issue is related to the ammount of butane that the federal government allows to be blended into "winter mix" gasoline.

Butane boils at 0.5degC but boild higher when dissolved in gasoline.

the reason the problem doesn't affect the '95-up 4.0's
is because there is a 1/4" thich thermal isolator between \
the cast aluminum fuel fuel rail and the aluminum lower intake.

the design of the fuel rail in the other engines used in RBV's doesn't
heat the fuel to the same degree because the rails all "float" above
the lower intake.

the other factor is that the ports in the fuel rails are at the highest point of the
rail so while there may be liquid fuel in the rail the top feed end of the injectors
so the inector feed point is "high and dry"

the correction to the problem is to either:
A)replace the fuel railand/or lower intake and add the thermal isolator
B) cycle the key repeatedly in an attempt to pump cool fiuel from the
tank through the rail to collapase the vapor bubble
C) carry a jumper wire to connect the switched terminals of the
fuel pump relay socket and let the fuel pump run for the length of one song on your sound system before attempting to start the engine

BTW, jumpering the relay for 2min and sucessfully starting the engine
is a positive diagnosis for this specific problem.

In case you are wondering, yes I have this problem on my 1993 engine.

Swapping out my lower intake is part of the long list of things I need
to do before I make my next trip to Wyoming.

AD

 

[cpierman]

1 quick and easy thing you can check is the connector at the intertia switch. The terminals can get heat cycled due to the heat from the cat converter. With enough heat cycles the female terminals in the harness side become relaxed and don't grip the male terminals in the switch. It has happend to Rangers I've owned. just disconnect the connector and see if it has been arcing on the harness side. If the harness side connector is somewhat melted you can replace the plastic part of the connector with a Ranger speaker connector. They are identical. Let us know what you find.

 

[rangerrager]

ok..so its not the connector on the inertia switch.

but as for what alland said, what do u mean by jump the switch terminals wich terminals are these ? please explain further so i can try this next time it wont start..
thanks for all the help guys
ryan doyle

 

[Kalwren]

Hi, I'm having a very similar problem. I made a thread on it here:
http://www.therangerstation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46952

Can you give detailed instructions on how to create and set up the jumper that you're talking about in your message here?

You stated that if you run the fuel pump for several minutes and the engine starts, this is a clear sign that it's a butane fuel issue / winter mix.

I'd really like to know how to create the jumper to run my fuel pump.

I'm very interested in trying this to find out if it's my problem or not.

Thanks in advance!

I've answered this before and it's a fuel problem more
than a fuel system problem, but the design of the fuel system
is partially responsible.

the common complaint invariably comes from someone with a 1990-94 4.0.

the issue is related to the ammount of butane that the federal government allows to be blended into "winter mix" gasoline.

Butane boils at 0.5degC but boild higher when dissolved in gasoline.

the reason the problem doesn't affect the '95-up 4.0's
is because there is a 1/4" thich thermal isolator between \
the cast aluminum fuel fuel rail and the aluminum lower intake.

the design of the fuel rail in the other engines used in RBV's doesn't
heat the fuel to the same degree because the rails all "float" above
the lower intake.

the other factor is that the ports in the fuel rails are at the highest point of the
rail so while there may be liquid fuel in the rail the top feed end of the injectors
so the inector feed point is "high and dry"

the correction to the problem is to either:
A)replace the fuel railand/or lower intake and add the thermal isolator
B) cycle the key repeatedly in an attempt to pump cool fiuel from the
tank through the rail to collapase the vapor bubble
C) carry a jumper wire to connect the switched terminals of the
fuel pump relay socket and let the fuel pump run for the length of one song on your sound system before attempting to start the engine

BTW, jumpering the relay for 2min and sucessfully starting the engine
is a positive diagnosis for this specific problem.

In case you are wondering, yes I have this problem on my 1993 engine.

Swapping out my lower intake is part of the long list of things I need
to do before I make my next trip to Wyoming.

AD

 

[AllanD]

Ok, on a '93-94 Ranger or explorer the relay simply plugs into the top of the
load center box.

If you pull the relay the relay is marked with a circuit diagram

All you need is a 2" length of a 12ga or 14ga wire with a MALE
1/4" slip terminal on either end that you can plug into the
switched contact terminals in the circuit breaker box.

ONE of the terminals is hot at all times (wired directly to the battery)
the other feeds the 12V to the fuel pump

When you install the jumper you'll hear the pump running
and if the system is vapor bound you'll probably hear a
gurgling sound.

It's all about heatsoaking the fuel rail.

I'm not 100% sure it's the lower intake or ONLY the lower intake that's different,
but I DO know that the '95-up 4.0's have that 1/4" plastic spacer between the
fuel rail and the lower intake and I have yet to hear of someone with a '95-up 4.0 complaining about this exact set of symptoms.

AD