Unions....good or bad?

[v-8power]

I can't believe you guys are blaming the union for keeping lazy people around. The company can fire someone for poor performance in most shops. They just choose not to.

Yeah so what if it goes to arbitration, the company will most likely win.

I have worked in nonunion places where they layed you off not by senority but by how well you were liked. One other place I worked they would come up to you at the time clock and say "I need you to work over" If you did'nt they would not hesitate to fire you.

IMO unions get a bad rap. If we did'nt have unions we would be working 12-16hr. days with little pay, just like the other contries they are sending our work to.

 

[chittybangbang]

Back in 1989-1990 I belonged to the CWA(the mattel of unions).The company that hired me had to be unionized due to the fact we subcontract for AT&T.For me it didn't make a big difference if I was in a union shop or not.I was laid off for a period of time and the union offered no help what so ever.During that time NY Telephone had a nasty strike.I would call the union asking for help and their reply was.. sorry we have people on strike, now go away.Nice, real nice. Why am I paying union dues.So for me personally that left a real bad taste in my mouth.There are good unions and bad unions and good companies and bad companies.You just have to know which ones to join or get hired by.Here locally, IBEW local 38 is a great union but it depends on what company you work for.

 

[Evan]

I can't believe you guys are blaming the union for keeping lazy people around. The company can fire someone for poor performance in most shops. They just choose not to.

Yeah so what if it goes to arbitration, the company will most likely win.

I have worked in nonunion places where they layed you off not by senority but by how well you were liked. One other place I worked they would come up to you at the time clock and say "I need you to work over" If you did'nt they would not hesitate to fire you.

IMO unions get a bad rap. If we did'nt have unions we would be working 12-16hr. days with little pay, just like the other contries they are sending our work to.

Read through the UAW contracts with the big three. It's just about impossible to fire a UAW worker unless you can prove gross negligence.

Unions are a complete drain on our economy. They cause jobs to go overseas as they inflate domestic labor costs. Unions breed an entitlement culture of laziness and anti-innovation.

I would NEVER work for a unionized company. I'd hate going through my day knowing I'm being paid an inflated wage that I don't deserve in the real world of free-markets. I'd hate knowing that my kids won't have jobs someday because my company can only afford to overpay for labor for so long before they're forced to shutdown or go overseas.

 

[v-8power]

Read through the UAW contracts with the big three. It's just about impossible to fire a UAW worker unless you can prove gross negligence.

Unions are a complete drain on our economy. They cause jobs to go overseas as they inflate domestic labor costs. Unions breed an entitlement culture of laziness and anti-innovation.

I would NEVER work for a unionized company. I'd hate going through my day knowing I'm being paid an inflated wage that I don't deserve in the real world of free-markets. I'd hate knowing that my kids won't have jobs someday because my company can only afford to overpay for labor for so long before they're forced to shutdown or go overseas.

I am not going to argue with you about this. But if the company does'nt have wording in the contract allowing them to fire someone then it is thier fault, period.

Also about companies moving jobs over seas. The only reason is GREED plain and simple.

 

[Ozwynn]

I am not going to argue with you about this. But if the company does'nt have wording in the contract allowing them to fire someone then it is thier fault, period.

Also about companies moving jobs over seas. The only reason is GREED plain and simple.

No, jobs go over seas because it is no longer profitable to do business in the US. If fuel keeps dropping then more will go over seas because the cost of labor and taxes will outway the cost of shipping

 

[Evan]

The only reason is GREED plain and simple.

No, many times it's so the company can escape oppressive (union) labor costs or high taxes. Moving is the only option...in the U.S. they can no longer compete with the global markets.

You act like the big three have a say in the wording of these contracts. They in fact have very little power. They're at the mercy of the union pirates who have been slowly looting the companies over the past 60 years.

Remember, global trade is what allows us to have such cheap commodity prices and such a high standard of living.

 

[Mark_88]

No, jobs go over seas because it is no longer profitable...

No, many times it's so the company can escape oppressive (union) labor costs or high taxes.

But both of these examples spell GREED! The company wants to dump jobs here because it is not profitable...that means they are not making enough money...cheap labour sings the siren song and they go into the rocks...

Unfortunately, I think they fail to see that pulling jobs out of here will, effectively, give them no NA market once the economy collapses...

 

[goodrich63]

you all should read my post. then go look at the auto companies 3rd quater profits they are posted on their corp web site, they are not hurting as bad as they let on... the corperations also need to be held accountable for their actions as well.. you just cant blame unions.. if you think for one minute that youd be better off with out unions someone is feeding you with a line of bs.. before i got into being a union carpenter i worked at a frozen food company that was an open shop as matainace. i was injured on the job one day and was fired for the injury. no comp, no payment of hospital bills no sorry no nothing. that would never happen with a good union in place... you must remember something about unions, you the employee have a voice. go to your union meetings and vote on the issues at hand, if you have employees who suck tell your buisness reps they will do something about it. yes there are good and bad with everything but if all you do is whine and complain its your fault not the unions. become educated and act as responsible adults.. we live in a day and age where it is easier to blame someone else rather to act and make the world a better place

 

[v-8power]

You act like the big three have a say in the wording of these contracts. They in fact have very little power. They're at the mercy of the union pirates who have been slowly looting the companies over the past 60 years.

That's why they call it negiotations. BOTH sides sit at the table.

I have been at the table and know how it works.

 

[Evan]

That's why they call it negiotations. BOTH sides sit at the table.

I have been at the table and know how it works.

They're both at the table, but one side is just about powerless.

Do you think GM wants to be locked into pensions they can't afford??

 

[Ozwynn]

and the unions are not being greedy how?

 

[lilwhitelighting]

you like clean water

I am a union plumber/pipefitter and have to go to school for five years before i can get a journeymans card.We are very educated in what we do for the saftey and well fare of the public.Your right we are very expensive but our motto is we do it right the first time,and we warrenty our work for one year.When JOE the plumber comes and shot guns a job in for you,and the water from your sink taste like it came from the crapper because he had a cross connection.(happens quite often)You will gladly pay me to fix it.Its people like Joe the plumber that undermine what unions stand for.That whats wrong with america no body has a back bone any more but the unions.If it wasnt for the unions every one of you people would be working 70 hrs a week and only getting paid for 40.you can think your unions for those paid holidays you get off and what about that paid vacation you like so much.Yeah that was all done because of strong willed union brothers and sister.America was built on the back of union workers so yeah your welcom.

 

[lilwhitelighting]

you like clean water

I am a union plumber/pipefitter and have to go to school for five years before i can get a journeymans card.We are very educated in what we do for the saftey and well fare of the public.Your right we are very expensive but our motto is we do it right the first time,and we warrenty our work for one year.When JOE the plumber comes and shot guns a job in for you,and the water from your sink taste like it came from the crapper because he had a cross connection.(happens quite often)You will gladly pay me to fix it.Its people like Joe the plumber that undermine what unions stand for.That whats wrong with america no body has a back bone any more but the unions.If it wasnt for the unions every one of you people would be working 70 hrs a week and only getting paid for 40.you can think your unions for those paid holidays you get off and what about that paid vacation you like so much.Yeah that was all done because of strong willed union brothers and sister.America was built on the back of union workers so yeah your welcome.

 

[Evan]

i was injured on the job one day and was fired for the injury. no comp, no payment of hospital bills no sorry no nothing.

That is ILLEGAL. All employers are required to carry WC. Unless horseplay was involved, that should not have happened to you. It would not happen at my non-union company. Your story has nothing to do with the union/non-union debate.

then go look at the auto companies 3rd quater profits they are posted on their corp web site, they are not hurting as bad as they let on

I have CAREFULLY studied both the interim cash flow statements and balance sheets of GM. Those two filings are much more accurate than any corporate website. They are in SERIOUS trouble. Their assets are rediculously leveraged. Many business analysts predict GM can't make it to the end of this year without an infusion of bailout money.

 

[Ozwynn]

I am a union plumber/pipefitter and have to go to school for five years before i can get a journeymans card.We are very educated in what we do for the saftey and well fare of the public.Your right we are very expensive but our motto is we do it right the first time,and we warrenty our work for one year.When JOE the plumber comes and shot guns a job in for you,and the water from your sink taste like it came from the crapper because he had a cross connection.(happens quite often)You will gladly pay me to fix it.Its people like Joe the plumber that undermine what unions stand for.That whats wrong with america no body has a back bone any more but the unions.If it wasnt for the unions every one of you people would be working 70 hrs a week and only getting paid for 40.you can think your unions for those paid holidays you get off and what about that paid vacation you like so much.Yeah that was all done because of strong willed union brothers and sister.America was built on the back of union workers so yeah your welcom.

didn't you read where I said I usually hire a union contractor? and no America wasn't built on the back of Union Labor. America was built on blood, courage, and innovation.