Tire challenge

[James Morse]

I am looking for a 265/75R15 tire or it can be a 31x10.5 they are almost identical and 31" will have more choices.

What I want is a tire with symmetric tread side-to-side. Because when I look at the outside of the truck I expect to see one side mirror the other side as it does almost 100%. But tires do not. They are always 2 lefts, or 2 rights, depending on how you want to call it. They are not mirror images such as is the rest of the truck. I know I will take a lot of flak about it but now that I have noticed this, I have set out to find tires that actually have symmetric tread (some say they are, but they aren't).

I think the reason you don't see them, is, if tires are symmetric side-to-side, if they aren't also symmetric laterally (in their pattern) then it requires to mount different faces, in other words, that's a directional tire and something you NEVER see in these sizes for off-road tires whether A/T or Mud. Directional tires will have arrows on them showing you the rotation direction. Then you can't swap them side to side. I believe, it's just not done.

But if the tread is symmetric, i.e., mirror images, both side to side and laterally then it doesn't matter how they are mounted and they will be true mirror images of each other as they set on the truck.

Good luck finding them that's the challenge. And I have no idea why, because it's very easy to make an effective tread like that.

 

[Blmpkn]

Mabey it ISNT that easy to make an effective symmetrical all terrain/mud terrain tire tread pattern.

I'd think that if it were.. there would be a lot more choices on the market. Many many millions of dollars get spent on (hopefully) designing the BEST tread pattern..

 

[dvdswan]

The Four Types of Tire Tread Patterns Explained
Directional Tires (unidirectional)
tire treads are made to rotate in one direction. They offer excellent grip and handling capabilities, but can be slippery on wet roads because they cannot expel water as well due to the tire not being able to displace it from left or right. These tire treads engage best when you need them most – during acceleration and hard cornering maneuvers.

Symmetric Tread Patterns
Symmetrical tire treads are the most popular tire type on today’s market. They provide excellent wet and dry road performance, as well as a long tire life – due to their uniform tire wear pattern. These tires can be mounted either way depending on your preference for left or right-hand drive vehicles.

Asymmetric Pattern
Asymmetric tire treads have tread blocks that are different on the left and right tire. These tires provide superior traction throughout their life, but they do not perform well in wet conditions because of water dispersion problems due to unbalanced tire wear patterns.

Directional/Asymmetric
Directional/Asymmetric tire treads have unique tread block designs on both sides of the tire so it can rotate in either direction depending on the tire rotation pattern. These tires are excellent performers in terms of handling and traction, but they do not have the same longevity as symmetric tire treads due to their unbalanced tire wear patterns.

 

[James Morse]

What they call symmetric, isn't. The grooves at the edges slant the same direction and the little tail that comes off them are in opposite directions. It will not be a mirror image. They are wrong. What they have is that it would be symmetric if they flipped half of it upside down. It would then also be directional.

You note that the directional tires are in fact symmetric, meaning, mirror images if you split it down the middle. A symmetric tire is by definition directional unless it is also longitudinally symmetric.

It's not that hard to design. Take what is your proposed tire face, and draw some angles and diamonds on it, slanting lines, whatever - you can easily do it, and have a non-directional but symmetric tire and one side of your truck will mirror the other and it doesn't matter how you mount it or its direction of rotation or which side it's on.

I think there are 2 reasons they don't do it:
1. It is not as complicated looking.
2. There is, I think, a common misconception that if you flip the tire to the other side (mounting the same face always), it'll somehow magically become a mirror image. But that's not true at all. So you end up with the 2 lefts.

There's only one reason they don't make directional (i.e., tires symmetric side-to-side but not longitudinally) tires and that's because it limits rotation and it forces people to think about what they are doing when they mount them. To do things right, you'd need 2 spares. It would have to be a small niche market.

 

[James Morse]

Symmetric and non-directional!

 

[James Morse]

It's really not complicated. What you do is draw 1/4 of your tread pattern - make it as wacky or complicated as you want then mirror it to the other side, and mirror that lengthwise. Voila, symmetric non-directional pattern. I made a simple one just to show it's possible, but you could make it fancy.

 

[2011Supercab]

You wouldn't be able to hear yourself think with that tread pattern, and it would suck in the rain.

 

[James Morse]

Well you can make it different. I'll note also, that if you make a pattern like I said, you can take the two halves and rotate them relative to each other and it still works, because it's a repeating pattern. The two halves don't have to line up, which gives you yet more options.

I think it's readily do-able and any issues like noise and rain could be overcome. I guess one would kind of have to know what causes what. You want things like stone ejection (I guess) and etc.

Anyway, the point is, they don't exist (or I haven't yet found them) and I don't think there's any actual reason for that. Every truck is condemned to 2 left shoes and until we knew that, we didn't care (and I'm probably the only person who cares). And it obviously can't be very important to the average person or the drivability of the trucks.

 

[2011Supercab]

What you're after would be a specific use pattern.

Yes a tire could be designed like you want, but it would be good for only one thing.

Do you want it just for Dry pavement, Wet pavement, Mud, Snow, or Ice ?

Most people want a universal type tread with long life, and that's what tire manufactures give us.

 

[2011Supercab]

BFGoodrich Radial T/A

 

[Blmpkn]

Yes a tire could be designed like you want, but it would be good for only one thing.

Do you want it just for Dry pavement, Wet pavement, Mud, Snow, or Ice ?

Most people want a universal type tread with long life, and that's what tire manufactures give us.

This is just it.

There's actual science behind tread patterns.

Considering the complete lack of a truly symmetrical tread pattern I'd have to say that said science says a truly symmetrical pattern is sub par. Or else there would be options.

And honestly, even specific-use RACING tires are hardly ever symmetrical. The racing bit really holds weight here.. considering.. ya know.. racing.

Look at the proxes 888r. One of the best track day tires out there.. not symmetrical.

Gravel tires for rally cars.. not symmetrical.

Super swampers for the hill and hole rednecks.. no way.


Someone needs to tell that EngineeringExplained guy to do a good long bit on tread design lol.

 

[Blmpkn]

BFGoodrich Radial T/A
View attachment 85898

While it's close it's not a mirror image, that's what he's after.

 

[Snoranger]

Mickey Thompson makes 31x10.5x15 tires with a symmetrical tread pattern… technically.

 

[Blmpkn]

Don't expect to get a 50k mile warranty on those though lol.

 

[dvdswan]