Timing???

[v-8power]

If you hook it straight up to full manifold vacuum, the vacuum advance goes "all in" the second you hook it up and start the engine. You then have to dial back the initial timing via moving the distributor to compensate for that, otherwise it'll never idle slow enough. There's really no advantage I can see to doing this.

Makes sense to me. Thanks

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

Trust me, ALL major branded 87 is now an E10-E15 blend now. Only the off branded companies can still get conventional 87, but not all do. I haul the stuff straight off the loading racks. The stations that do sell conventional 87 usually post a sign out front that their gas has no alkyhol in it. We sell conventional 89 and 91 too, actually I like the 87 better now, as it's got premium in it to bring it up to 87. My Ranger pinged in summer with 87, but instead of running 89, I'd just pour 5 gallons on premium in it to bring the octane up every two tanks or so.

I wouldn't doubt it, but I have far fewer carb bowl draining sessions on the old B (I checked, 4.71:1
compression on new engine) with 87 than 89 which is posted as E10.

I tried 7/8 of a tank of premium in my truck and it didn't change anything.

what kind of dizzy do you have in it I was at the part store looking for a cap and rotor for a boat motor and the parts guy brought out one of these for a GM 5.0.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/FORD...r_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2c5d17e124
Does anyone know how well they work all it takes is one wire key on hot and you can adjust the amount of advance. I think he said they cost about $90 at oreilleys.

It has a rebuilt Duraspark dizzy in it that was new out of the box with the engine install. Not really crazy about trashing it, and the new coil and the new DS module.

 

[kimcrwbr1]

Maybe someone here that lives close to you can help you hammer it out that has experience with your setup. A extra set of hands works really good it dont hurt to ask.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

The vacuum advance only counts for 10 degrees you say it pings at 15 degrees slowly back off from there until it stops pinging under a load. How well is the mechanical advance doing put your light on it and see how far it advances at 3000 rpm you want total advance around 38 degrees but to preset the timing disconnect the advance vacuum line and plug it then set the timing at around 12 degrees. then connect the advance on manifold vacuum and set the idle air for max rpm. with the advance connected at an idle the timing should be around 22 degrees. Rev it up to about 3000 rpm you can guess where about 38 degrees is. Have you checked the timing chain. pull the dizzy cap and with a socket or wrench turn the crank a little clockwise until the rotor moves then turn it counter clockwise until it moves backwards. You can mark the damper to tell you how much slop is in the chain but it should be very little a couple of degrees. Unless the engine is completly rebuilt the timing marks are just for reference all ford V-8s run best on max possible advance and that changes with modifications. All of your high performance ignition systems, carburators tell you to set your timing at maximum advance without the ping. What your trying to do is syncronize timing advance with fuel delivery. Try it with the advance ported or on maniflod vac. Eventually you will find the sweet spot but start with base settings idle air out 2 1/2 turns from lightly seated position time it at 12 degrees with the advance disconnected and plugged. Connect the advance and see if it pings and go from there taking notes for future reference. But yea check the timing chain if you havent.

Maybe someone here that lives close to you can help you hammer it out that has experience with your setup. A extra set of hands works really good it dont hurt to ask.

Don't count me out yet, I haven't gotten to checking this yet.

If it passes that it pretty much leaves me with a carb issue or excessive carbon buildup.

 

[baddad457]

I'd bet on excessive carbon buildup with E6 heads (lots of sharp corners in the chamber too) and/or not enough octane for summer driving. Like I said before, E6 heads don't like(need) as much timing as other SBF heads do.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

As it sits right now with 11 degree base timing with the vacuum disconnected it is running 14 degrees advance at idle (750rpm). My timing light didn't like running at 3k, but if you average the beats it would be centered at the marker when it is set on 38 degrees (it is an adjustable one) In the shop the engine sounded absolutly fabulous for both me on the throttle in the cab and my helper with the timing light so we don't think it was the ignition screwing up.

Not really if we found out the the timing was advancing too much or the timing light wasn't up to the task.

IMO:

1. The thing is advancing too high on the high end, and because of my efforts to keep it from pinging has pulled the idle advance low too.

2. The timing light is goofy and really now I am more screwed up because I have ideas in my head that are not true.

I noticed on my last test drive that once it starts to ping I it doesn't really do anything to push it down more until it is about floored and it comes out of it. Dunno if that might be a 4bbl secondary issue or what, like when the butterflies open it isn't getting the fuel it needs and goes lean or something.

Tomorrow I am going to check compression and see what is going on there.

 

[kimcrwbr1]

Your timing light is wacko base timing should hold steady wherever you set it at an idle with the advance disconnected and plugged. If it jumps around at all it could be the mechanical advance or the timing chain. Does the rotor return all the way back snug when you have the cap off. What size jets do you have sniff the dipstick if it is dumping too much fuel in it will wash down into the crankcase. Also confirm the float level/s. I would get a light that works proper unplug the advance and plug the vacuum line set the base timing whatever is recommended for your engine and get a vacuum guage to set the idle air proper for the highest possible vacuum pressure or RPM and set the idle speed. Do that a couple times until it holds steady in between 17 and 21hg vacuum pressure or the highest RPM. connect the vacuum advance to the ported nipple on the carb or no vacuum at an idle and check the total advance at around 3000 rpm. if the advance is adjustable dial it back to around 38 degrees or until it stops pinging. I believe you can borrow a vacuum guage at most parts stores for a deposit or buy a good one they are real handy when diagnosing the health or an engine along with a compression tester. The idle air supplements the main jets I start at three turns out from lightly seated set the base timing and adjust the idle air for the highest rpm and drop the idle speed do that a few times until it only drops rpm when you turn them in and then check the number of turns count the turns in then back out to make sure they are within 1/2 a turn between them. Every time you adjust the base timing you need to go through the same routine with the idle air. The vacuum guage responds a little quicker for the idle air adjustment than a tach will but tach will get you there. GL

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

The timing light works great at idlish speeds, I don't think it knew how to deal with 3000rpm for checking the 38 degrees of advance. Maybe I should have just guessed instead of advancing the timing light to keep the line on the pointer.

The timing chain is new, it has had this issue since day one of it being on the road.

I haven't done anything to the carb, because IMO it should still be jetted too big for a stock 302, the factory specs are .086 main jets and .065x.052 rods. I was going to check the plugs when I check compression tonight.

I haven't actually smelled the oil yet, but it looks ok.

 

[kimcrwbr1]

I am not sure how you damper pully is marked but get under it with a tape measure and a white or yellow crayon turn the crank where you see the marks and measure 10 degrees and make a mark then mark 20 30 and 40 you just need to be close. Then you can see how far it advances as you give it gas. doi t first without the vacuum advance connected and estimate the total advance. then connect the vacuum advance and check it again and note the difference. I am almost positive your light is still working you are putting it on the #1 plug wire right. I allways check the coil wire also with the timing light and shine it on somthing dark to see if it is a steady signal if it skips you have a wire or plug issue you need to address. you can also time it from the coil wire as long as the #1 plug circuit is good. You will finger it out eventually let us know either way.

 

[kimcrwbr1]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=C_rTpOuJV_A
this might help he says time it at 15 degrees and the mechanical advance puts it at I think it was 42-44 degrees at 3 grand.

 

[kimcrwbr1]

Let that video play all the way through and click on the 302-351 timing video. sry not so good at links.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

Let that video play all the way through and click on the 302-351 timing video. sry not so good at links.

Just put all the gibberish at the end of the address between the "youtube" brackets.

It was on #1. At idle it read fine, but when I revved it up it went before and after the pointer.

 

[bobbywalter]

whats the vacuum gauge doing?

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

whats the vacuum gauge doing?

Steady half a needle below 19lbs.

 

[kimcrwbr1]

You probably dont have carbon issues. Are you checking it with the advance disconnected and is your advance on manifold vacuum or ported from the carb. The manifold is full vacuum until you open the throttle and it will lose vacuum until the rpm comes up then go full again. On ported on the carb it is the one that has no vacuum at an idle and as you open the throttle the vacuum will go up. What the vacuum advance does is retard the timing for more power under a load. 19 is pretty good for vacuum pressure. Sure wish I could get my hands on it your missing something simple which is not hard to do. I had a 79 dodge van with a 360 2 barrel I had to play with alot every tune up to get it dialed in. It is all syncronizing timing advance with fuel delivery you can always try different jet sizes to get it right for your setup and the float level is critical also.