Timing mark/TDC question

[Deluxedave]

When I line up the timing mark on the pulley to the TC mark, my #1 piston is not at top dead center. Is it supposed to be? Can I just make a new TDC mark on the pulley?

 

[holyford86]

I wouldn't, you would be better off to figure out why it's doing that

 

[kimcrwbr1]

kinna sounds weird to me are you using the pointer from the blockand did you mark with a white marker on the damper from underneath your timing mark and did you stick a skinny screwdriver in #1 sparkplug hole while turning to feel the piston coming up slowly not to bind it til it starts going back down then back a little if your trying to set the distributor you can plug the hole with your finger first until you feel pressure to assure the compression stroke then find the top with the screwdriver.

 

[IMenriched]

Might be possible to have the balancer "slip" from the inner to the outer portion of the Harmonic balancer itself

is the rubber deteriorated...cracked or pieces missing?

 

[Big Jim M]

Dave msaybe you should tell us what in the heck you are doing and why you are lineing up the marks.. Also do you KNOW which cylinder actually is number one?
Big JIm

 

[Deluxedave]

I tried to set the timing and was unable to see any marks even close to the pointer on the block. I then removed the #1 plug (forward cylinder on the passenger side of the engine) and inserted a screwdriver to feel when the piston moved. I also took off the distributor cap after identifying the #1 wire location. I had someone turn the crank with a ratchet while I felt for the piston move to the top of the stroke. I realize that the piston comes up on both the compression and exhaust stroke, so I stopped turning when the piston was at the top and the rotor pointed at the #1 position. I then looked to see if the marks on the balancer were lined up with the pointer. They were not. Just to make sure, I turned the crank until the piston went down and back up to the top and rechecked the timing marks. They were not even close.

Should the timing marks be lined up when the the piston is at the top center on the compression stroke? I just bought the truck and have been able to get it to idle smooth, but the distibutor was a little loose so I wanted to check the timing. I am open to any advice for how to proceed.

 

[Big Jim M]

Thanks for the details. Ok the crank goes at twice the speed of the camshaft. What you are trying to do simply CANNOT be done. It is impossible to get exact measurements from a visual attempt. CLOSE is good enough. Then with a light and the proper things disconnected from the distributor one sets the timing.
The only proper way to set the things you are LOOKING at is to take the timing cover off and realign the gears..
If you havn't disconnected the things that THAT dist requires then the timing will show waaay advanced.. so much that there wouldn't be any marks where the light flashes.
What I do with my rides is to measure the circumference of the balancer then I divide by 360* and make a good mark with a file at about 37* advanced.. Then I use a paint pen and paint the mark. Then I put another mark half way back to the TDC mark.
By doing this I can visually see how much vac advance I have and how much mechanical advance I have and also by watching the tachometer I can KNOW when these advances are happening..
I think you went to a lot of trouble trying to do what cannot be done.
Big JIm

 

[Deluxedave]

Jim,
I don't know if the previous owner had messed with the timing gears, but I suppose I could look to see if there is any appearance of a recent front cover reinstallation. Could an improper timing gear replacement cause the mark to be off?
I still want to know: should the TC mark on the balancer be lined up with the pointer when #1 is at TDC?

 

[Big Jim M]

OK I'll try again.

Jim,
I don't know if the previous owner had messed with the timing gears, but I suppose I could look to see if there is any appearance of a recent front cover reinstallation. Could an improper timing gear replacement cause the mark to be off?
I still want to know: should the TC mark on the balancer be lined up with the pointer when #1 is at TDC?

When looking at the inside of the dist you aren't allowing for WHEN the spark jumps across the rotor/cap gap. It is impossible for you to simply LOOK in there and see it is incorrect.
If the timing is a cog off your engine won't hardly run at all.. It will barely start and will pop and crack and generally raise hell.
So what i'm saying is everything is good...get out of there.

Now as for the mark on the balancer and the pointer on the block.
With your screwdriver and the slop in the timing chain it would be quite hard to really KNOW what was what..
You need to put a timing light on it and make sure it is running at the advertised idle speed.. then make sure the vac (if any) is disconnected and plugged. Then if it has a computer plug that needs to be unplugged...unplut that thing.. Then the light should be working at the designed advance. At the designed idle speed. If not then give the dist a small twist and get it to where it is advanced to the proper amount.
Big JIm

 

[kimcrwbr1]

LIke Jim said make sure the spout is disconnected that could be the problem all along that is the grey single wire connector just off the distributor connector about 6 inches or so set the timing and tighten it then check it again then plug it in that is all you need to do. the only way to check the timing visually is to line the gears up under the cover and then the mark should be on tdc. Doesn`t the 2.9 have a timing chain I know the 2.8 has gears only.

 

[piotrsko]

Dumb question: are you trying to do the timing with the pointer marker or the round hole looking thing? the pointer is at about 11 O clock with regards to the harmonic dampener. front of the engine, the round thing is at about 9 o clock. sounds like the PO forgot to put a part back on.

I don't Know about the rest of you, but BOTH of my 2.9 rangers had 2 pointers, and I'll be danged if I know what the round one does.

 

[Psychopete]

Could an improper timing gear replacement cause the mark to be off?

No - Not unless they somehow managed to put the dampner on wrong or didn't put in the key way and it slipped; or what IMenriched has suggested that the pulley is rotted out..

I still want to know: should the TC mark on the balancer be lined up with the pointer when #1 is at TDC?

Mine was when I rebuilt, pretty much right on the T/C mark. Seen the piston at TDC when the heads were off and compared to the balancer.

Timing should be set against the "strait edge" of the timing pointer.

I have lots of spare 2.9L parts, let me know if you need any odds and ends.

Pete

 

[kimcrwbr1]

I believe the round one is for a crank position sensor that is the only thing it could be maybe they used it to time them from the factory I dunno

 

[Deluxedave]

Sorry for the delay. I have been out of town.
I am using the only pointer I can find and it is in the area of 11 o'clock. I have also removed the spout plug and what I believe is the vacuum (comes off of the vacuum near the FPR vaccuum line and runs down by the dist) and plugged the line. I have made sure the engine was warm and idling normally before I started.

Under these conditions, I can find the TC mark around the 2 - 2:30 position. I can turn the dist to get retard end of the scale within an inch of the pointer, but the engine barely runs with it there. I have gone back to setting it where it seems to sound the best, but I would like to figure this thing out.