timing after head swap

[donlightbody]

The head swap went fine, when the pistons were exposed I turned the crank to clean the carbon off the top of each and for some reason thinking as long as I returned the crank back to #1 TDC the distributor gear on the cam would be back in the correct spot. after putting it all back together is fired up, ran kinda crappy and would die after a few minutes of idleing (to run motor flush through the oil) and when I took it out on the road she toppped out at 45. Got to talking with my Dad and we got to thinking about the 1 turn of the crank. Did I set the timing off 180 deg? I tried setting it back another 180 and won't run at all. Then back to (what I think is off by) 180 and runs like crap. There have never been any ignition issues before this. Ideas? possible the chain jumped a tooth?

 

[IMenriched]

The head swap went fine, when the pistons were exposed I turned the crank to clean the carbon off the top of each and for some reason thinking as long as I returned the crank back to #1 TDC the distributor gear on the cam would be back in the correct spot. after putting it all back together is fired up, ran kinda crappy and would die after a few minutes of idleing (to run motor flush through the oil) and when I took it out on the road she toppped out at 45. Got to talking with my Dad and we got to thinking about the 1 turn of the crank. Did I set the timing off 180 deg? I tried setting it back another 180 and won't run at all. Then back to (what I think is off by) 180 and runs like crap. There have never been any ignition issues before this. Ideas? possible the chain jumped a tooth?

Just checking...When you reset the timing with the "spout cap" removed, yes??

yes, timing chain can jump a tooth...but to do so would require excessive wear on the chain or sprockets or key driving them. It would be unlikely, that being said, I'm sure there are plenty that have had it happen.

you could have a vacuum line missing or cracked from the repair??

if you lost /cracked a head, prompting this repair, it could be coolant has spilled out into the exhaust and took out the O2 sensor?? and or the cat??

might be a missing ground wire??....plugged fuel filter??
In short a host of possiblities yet.

have you done a compression check?
what is the fuel pressure like?
codes are saying what??

does it pop and act like it is back firing?? or belch black out the tailpipe?

 

[MAKG]

If you were 180 deg off in timing, there is NO WAY it would start. Period.

But if you guessed at the distributor location, you guessed wrong. Pull the spout, get a timing light, and check base timing.

 

[donlightbody]

MAKG, thank you. I wasnt sure on that but I guessed it would run at 180 off just like crap and be really hard on lower parts. That explains alot though, thanks. It won't run at the moment so I will turn it back another 180 and start looking for other problems. Since it hasn't been starting I havent pulled any codes, I'll try that also once I get her firing. The heads were indeed replaced due to coolant in the oil. Thanks, and I'd love any more help anyone has. Also, is this 88 2.9 sequential fuel injection? If so how is that timed, could that be a factor or that be one reason it won't do anything 180 off?

 

[Wicked_Sludge]

the 2.9 is bank fired.

 

[Psychopete]

could that be a factor or that be one reason it won't do anything 180 off?

It has to do with how the engine works. The crankshaft has two spin twice for the camshaft to spin once. Intake (piston goes down), Compression (piston goes up), Power (FIRE; piston goes down), and Exhaust (piston goes up).

When you're at TDC on the compression stroke, the spark is going to ignite the compressed intake charge. If you're at the top of the exhaust stroke, the valves will be open and won't have any compression (Engine needs fuel, spark and compression). This is why it won't run 180 off.

+1 to SPOUT - Was it removed when timing was set?

Pete

 

[MAKG]

And don't even think about codes before you check base timing. Then CLEAR them (easiest is to disconnect the PCM or the battery).

 

[donlightbody]

Thanks guys, I got it going now. Pulled plug on #1 and stuck my pinky in it to feel the pressure to get the compression stroke, then at TC I put the distributor assembly back in. Ran like crap, then (D'oh!) advanced timing about 10deg and now all is pretty good. Was idling pretty rough and timing kept surging between 8-12 so I think I got 10(ish). Am getting a bit of hessitation close to 3000rpm and doesn't want to go much over 65. But she'll get me to work tmrw and I can figure out the rest. Am guessing a vacuum issue somewhere now. Will check the timing again when I can get it to warm up, and pull codes. Thanks everyone, that 180deg out kinda threw me. Learned alot from this job.

 

[Wicked_Sludge]

the timing shouldnt change with RPM if you remembered to pull the SPOUT.

if you set it to 10 degrees with the spout in, your timing is WAY retarded.

 

[donlightbody]

Agh! so much to remember what I did or didn't do after do so much time wasting crap (on my own , not by anyone's suggestions). Sorry. wracking my brain here... I really don't think I did. Thanks, I'll try again in the morning. I found a link to properly doing this including disconnecting the spout, thanks. I have never in my 38yrs had to do anything involving the timing. Can swap out the clutch by myself in 8 hrs with a 6 pack, but this timing stuff has been a bitch slap.

 

[donlightbody]

OK, just found the diagram in the Chilton's of the sticker that USED TO BE in the engine compartment that explains this step for step. We need a smiley for me kickin my own butt. I'm quite certain now that I never pulled the spout connector thanks for that pointer wicked.