Temp gauge 99 4.0L

[Big Jim M]

What sholzy said!

I totally agree! He never got it completely FULL of coolant! He never has said it is puking.. which it absolutely WOULD do if the head gasket was the problem.
So do all the above and this time get it completely FULL of coolant. Then every morning before starting raise the hood and take the radiator cap off to see for yourself that it is STILL FULL of coolant.
There is a possibility it has a small external leak you haven't found YET! If it needs coolant in the mornings your problem could also be an air leak in the overflow tubing... that little hose must be TIGHT and secure to do it's job.
Big JIm

 

[backroad101]

I think it did puke for the first time on the way home today. Temp gauge bouonced so I pulled over, opened the hood and everything was wet and the overfill resevoir lid was open. Now i have no way of knowing if the first shop just left the lid open or if it was forced open by pressure.

First place stated the smell of fuel in the coolant. Thinking about it, the second place I asked they give me a second opinion on a bad head gasket. So i guess I kinda put that idea in their head. At least they didn't charge me to look at it. I am thinking of taking it to the Ford dealership, play like it hasn't been looked at yet and see what they say. I find it hard to believe it went bad againt after only 20k miles

 

[sholzy]

@Big JIm:
If coolant was getting into one of the cylinders, wouldn't it show a tell-tale sign on one of the plugs?

 

[sholzy]

I think it did puke for the first time on the way home today. Temp gauge bouonced so I pulled over, opened the hood and everything was wet and the overfill resevoir lid was open. Now i have no way of knowing if the first shop just left the lid open or if it was forced open by pressure.

First place stated the smell of fuel in the coolant. Thinking about it, the second place I asked they give me a second opinion on a bad head gasket. So i guess I kinda put that idea in their head. At least they didn't charge me to look at it. I am thinking of taking it to the Ford dealership, play like it hasn't been looked at yet and see what they say. I find it hard to believe it went bad againt after only 20k miles

You think it puked. Did you check the level in the radiator? You said earlier the reservoir was "close to full". If the cap was left off you will get coolant sloshing out the top.

 

[Big Jim M]

Well

@Big JIm:
If coolant was getting into one of the cylinders, wouldn't it show a tell-tale sign on one of the plugs?

What it WOULD SHOW is a constant puking of the radiator from the COMBUSTION pressure pushing the coolant OUT!
Ya see... if coolant under 16 pounds of pressure can get into the chamber then the opposite happens..and MUCH worse because of the overwhelming difference in pressure.
It never fails to happen.
Big JIm

 

[sholzy]

What it WOULD SHOW is a constant puking of the radiator from the COMBUSTION pressure pushing the coolant OUT!
Ya see... if coolant under 16 pounds of pressure can get into the chamber then the opposite happens..and MUCH worse because of the overwhelming difference in pressure.
It never fails to happen.
Big JIm

But on the intake stroke the radiator pressure will be greater and coolant will enter the chamber.

 

[Big Jim M]

Well

But on the intake stroke the radiator pressure will be greater and coolant will enter the chamber.

Coolant on the plugs and NO puking out the radiator indicates a coolant leak OTHER than a head gasket. Head gasket leaks are always noticed by the coolant puking out the overflow.

Big Jim

 

[backroad101]

Coolant on the plugs and NO puking out the radiator indicates a coolant leak OTHER than a head gasket. Head gasket leaks are always noticed by the coolant puking out the overflow.

Big Jim

The coolant overflow resevoir (by the windshield washer resevoir) does fill almost completly but has never overflown (unsure if the one from yesterday was just the shop leaving the lid open). Nothing has ever overflown from the cap on the radiator.

Talked to an engine specialist / rebuilder shop and just going the route for my third opinion. He stated what I was thinking; better to have someone look at it who looks at and tears into engines all day 5 days a week. Plus he sounded knowledgable on the 4.0L. My mechanic who did the thermostat agreed to refund part of the work as they misdiagnoised (they thought the thermo I put in was bad) Still crossing fingers that it is something cheaper than a head gasket. He restated what everyone says here about how the 4.0L is touchy with overheating. He discussed resurfacing the heads but recommended paying a little more for new heads as there is a new design with more metal on the head and thus stronger. Thoughts?

Glad this is not my only car so I don't have to rush into anything

 

[backroad101]

So let's say it is the head gasket. I have 109k miles. Taking cost into account:

What else could I get done while it is apart (not necessarily related to this but to save on labor while it is apart)
What should I replace to prevent this again (water pump, fan or radiator)
What should I do to prevent this again (tips on the 4.0L in general)

.

 

[Big Jim M]

Wow!

The coolant overflow resevoir (by the windshield washer resevoir) does fill almost completly but has never overflown (unsure if the one from yesterday was just the shop leaving the lid open). Nothing has ever overflown from the cap on the radiator.

Talked to an engine specialist / rebuilder shop and just going the route for my third opinion. He stated what I was thinking; better to have someone look at it who looks at and tears into engines all day 5 days a week. Plus he sounded knowledgable on the 4.0L. My mechanic who did the thermostat agreed to refund part of the work as they misdiagnoised (they thought the thermo I put in was bad) Still crossing fingers that it is something cheaper than a head gasket. He restated what everyone says here about how the 4.0L is touchy with overheating. He discussed resurfacing the heads but recommended paying a little more for new heads as there is a new design with more metal on the head and thus stronger. Thoughts?

Glad this is not my only car so I don't have to rush into anything

If it don't overflow the radiator it cannot be a bad head gasket!!! If it is truly full of coolant the heater will blow hot air.. If it blows hot air and the gauge goes up and down and the radiator holds it's coolant then we would look to the gauge and the sending unit to that gauge.
As far as a "better" head... the ones you have are great...as long as they stay full of coolant. ANY head will go away when the coolant gets low.
Have you gone out every morning and LOOKED into the radiator? Is it ALWAYS full of coolant when cold?

Headwork... I never have seen a used head that wasn't warped when taken off the block. Since I got grown I haven't had a head milled!!! One of the reasons the tightening pattern for heads starts in the middle is to PULL any warp out of the head. Years ago I tested a badly warped head on a bare block just to see what happened when I tightned the head bolts..
Right away the first bolts took the warp out of the head... I mean really quick! Maybe 25 pounds and they were flat again.
So I never have had any heads milled just to get them flat again.
Big JIm

 

[backroad101]

If it don't overflow the radiator it cannot be a bad head gasket!!! If it is truly full of coolant the heater will blow hot air.. If it blows hot air and the gauge goes up and down and the radiator holds it's coolant then we would look to the gauge and the sending unit to that gauge.
As far as a "better" head... the ones you have are great...as long as they stay full of coolant. ANY head will go away when the coolant gets low.
Have you gone out every morning and LOOKED into the radiator? Is it ALWAYS full of coolant when cold?

Headwork... I never have seen a used head that wasn't warped when taken off the block. Since I got grown I haven't had a head milled!!! One of the reasons the tightening pattern for heads starts in the middle is to PULL any warp out of the head. Years ago I tested a badly warped head on a bare block just to see what happened when I tightned the head bolts..
Right away the first bolts took the warp out of the head... I mean really quick! Maybe 25 pounds and they were flat again.
So I never have had any heads milled just to get them flat again.
Big JIm

When you say overflow the radiator, do you mean out of the radiator cap? If so, the only time it did that was when I had the cap off to get air out of the system. The clear overflow resivoir overflowed maybe once, but again I can't say the shop didn't forget to put the lid back on. I get heat in the cab. The only time I don't get heat in the cab is right before the needle pegs. I replaced the sending unit and sensor after I did the t stat. There is coolant in the clear resevoir, haven't looked in the actual radiator. Will check in the morning.

.

 

[sholzy]

When you say overflow the radiator, do you mean out of the radiator cap? If so, the only time it did that was when I had the cap off to get air out of the system. The clear overflow resivoir overflowed maybe once, but again I can't say the shop didn't forget to put the lid back on. I get heat in the cab. The only time I don't get heat in the cab is right before the needle pegs. I replaced the sending unit and sensor after I did the t stat. There is coolant in the clear resevoir, haven't looked in the actual radiator. Will check in the morning.

.

Out the overflow tank.

The no heat from the heater is probably from no fluid in the heater core. No fluid in the heater core = air in the system. Temp gage goes up because the coolant is boiling. Coolant usually boils because of air in the system or lack of system pressure.

When the engine is at operating temp, is the upper rad hose firm (pressurized)?

I like to use a lever type pressure cap so I can easily remove the cap while the engine is running at operating temp and top up the radiator without losing coolant during the big belch (air bubble escaping).

Once you think you have the air out of the system let it run for awhile without the cap and watch the filler neck for bubbles.

When I changed my water pump out back in the spring, it kept running hot and losing coolant. With the cap off I had no bubbles at the neck. My overflow tank was always dry so I knew I wasn't losing coolant that way. My radiator was full when I left the house for work. After work my radiator needed about 2qts of coolant. You could see on the ground where the coolant was. It took about a week before I found the problem. I forgot to put the hose clamp back on the upper hose on the block side.

I was so busy looking for something that didn't exist, I overlooked something so simple as a missing clamp. I'm surprised it didn't blow the hose completely off. During the 10 mile drive to work the coolant squirted out from the hose end and when I parked the truck, the coolant boiled because of air in the system and pushed out from around the hose.

Long story short, before you think its the head gasket, make very well sure you don't have a leak somewhere.

 

[backroad101]

Now, when I say overflow resivoir I mean this

http://www.partstrain.com/images/product_images/thumbs/dorman/rb603212.jpg


The coolant in this has no signs of being green and kinda smells like fuel. There is coolant in the actual radiator and it is bright green.

.

 

[Paulcrzy]

I am dealing with an issue similar to this. We had the freeze plugs blow out on us during the summer (I know right?!). Our cousin replaced the freeze plugs and put a new radiator in. We got it back and the temp gauge is going up and down from the N in normal to the L and back again. It never goes past the L.

I replaced the thermostat, with the assumption it was going bad and was opening late and closing early. It did not work

I replaced the fan blades. In-between every blade the plastic was cracked. My thought was if the blades made the clutch off center it might not engage correctly and cause it to not get the air needed. It did not work.

I replaced the water pump. At this point I could hear water trickling through heater core area and assumed the pump was going bad and was not pushing the amount of water needed. It did not work.

Last night I was driving home and the temp gauge spiked to "/H" and did not return down with in 3-4 seconds. I cut the engine off and when I did, I heard GULPING sounds from the heater core.

I replaced the heater core this morning. I do not hear the trickling or the gulping anymore but it still goes up to L but not "/H". It did not work.

I only have the fan clutch, overflow hose, and overflow tank left to replace. **aside from the sensors themselves**

Notes on truck:
It never does this at idle.
There is no specific speed that it does it more or less at.
Often times after this happened I open the hood to find the connection from the overflow hose to the overflow tank has expelled coolant. *Not a lot but some - tank is still 1/2 full*
When I open the radiator cap after it has cooled (warm not cold) it releases pressure and I can hear it blowing air/air bubbles into the over flow tank.
After it does this the radiator cap is cool to the touch but the radiator is hot.
When I open the radiator after this has happened and the engine is cool I need to add 1/4 to 1/2 gallon of coolant.


Any thoughts?


***I have never left the radiator puke just burp. I am going to try this in the morning and let it run with the cap off and see if it keeps puking or just the once from the air getting out.***

 

[Big Jim M]

Paul!!

We would like for you to give us a play by play of HOW you fill the radiator..
The RULES for filling YOUR radiator are:

1. Fill the radiator to full.
2. START the engine.. keeping the radiator cap OFF.
3. Turn the heater to the HOT position. This allows coolant to circulate thru
the heater core.
4. Now the engine is running and heating up. Continue to add coolant to the
radiator as the engine heats. After ten or more minutes the thermostat
should open and allow a flow of coolant into the radiator. Make sure the
coolant level is full and install the cap. You have FILLED the system.

While filling and running there will be gulps of air pushing coolant out the top! Forget about this and continue to keep it full until operating temp is reached.

If it still misbehaves after a proper filling, you have installed the thermostat upside down.. Or the radiator is clogged.. which in your case I doubt.

Big Jim