Starter problem

[bodine465]

Trying to get this fixed before the weekend. Wife needs truck to haul crafts up to a youth camp.

93 Ranger with 4.0 and auto trans. Kid was headed up camping last week, stopped at a store for supplies, then truck wouldn't turn over. Had a passer by try to help with a jump, but no luck, so called dad. Battery was replaced the week before and was driven several times without issues. Drove two hours to where he was and tried to get it started in the parking lot next to a biker bar at 1 in the morning. At least it wasn't raining.

First tried the obvious and tried to jump it. No luck. When you try, all I get is a "clunk". Not a clicking, like it would with a low battery. Tried tapping the starter with a hammer but still nothing. Then I tried to jump across the starter solenoid and noticed that not only did it not crank, but I didn't get the sparks that you would normally get when trying something foolish like using a screwdriver to jump across the solenoid. Assumed it had to be a bad starter and gave up. Towed it home the next day.

Pulled the starter and used a portable battery pack to test it in the driveway. Hooked ground to starter body and tapped the starter side solenoid post, but just got sparks. Assumed starter was bad and ordered a new one off Ebay. Bolted it up when it arrived and got the same "clunk". Later, I tried testing the old starter again, using a screwdriver in the positive clamp instead of the clamp itself and the starter spun. Lesson learned.

Broke out the ohm meter and confirmed 12.8 volts across battery posts and roughly the same at the battery cable side of the solenoid. When I have someone try to start it, the voltage at the solenoid drops below 1 volt. Just to confirm the battery wasn't shorting, I checked across the post as the kid tried to start and the voltage only dropped slightly, but still over 12 volts. Going off a posting I found on this site about a hot battery cable, I checked the voltage of the battery cable from the positive terminal to the battery side of the solenoid to see if there was any resistance (reading over 1 volt), but it stayed zeroed. Since the posting wasn't clear if the measurement was while switch was off or cranking, I had my kid try to start it and the voltage jumped to over 12 volts! WTF? Is that normal? Is it just using the tester as another route of juice to the starter when its in cranking mode? And is the reading dropping from 12 volts to 1 volt at the solenoid when trying to start normal? Any ideas or other tests I should try? Did get a socket on the crank and moved engine to confirm it wasn't seized.

 

[mendozamm]

what about the actual wire that goes to the starter off the solenoid?

 

[1994Ranger$$$pit]

That red wire that bolts to the starter with a 10 mm nut sometimes needs the last 3 inches replaced.The rebuilt and new starters from the LPS usually give you 3 inches of that gauge wire with a crimp style connector.
I just went through the whole starter issue.Mine had intermitant starting.
Turned out to be the starter,but I did change the solenoid on the fender wall also.
I would have the starter that you got bench tested.It's not all that uncommon to get a lemon right off the shelve.It took me a few times,but got a rebuit to last 7 years this last time.

 

[Earl43P]

Here's the skinny, expanding upon what has already been posted.

Your starter needs two sources of power.

First source is always there, straight from the battery post, bussed at the solenoid terminal (not switched there). That power turns the starter motor. (Yours is missing that power).

The second source is from the solenoid on the fender. Turn the key to crank, the solenoid energizes and sends power to an electromagnet/lever assembly in the starter itself. That lever/electromagnet makes a switch connection in the starter to apply the "always there" power to the starter motor (it also throws the bendix gear forward to engage the teeth of the flywheel. That is the clunk you hear (so your ignition switch and fender solenoid are working fine).

You need a new large power cable from your fender solenoid to your starter. I suspect your OEM cable may be a molded together type. If that is the case and you don't want to spend big $$ on an OEM cable, simply buy a universal cable and attach it to the same post on the solenoid and route it to the starter. Remember that this cable is ALWAYS HOT, so disconnect your battery before you get into it.

Looking at the schematic further, it appears that you MAY have the "always there" power cable routed straight from the + Bat terminal to the starter. If that is the case, your repair is even simpler. I've only had (2) 93's but both were 2.3's which is a different starter/solenoid setup.

 

[hubey 77]

you have bad connection some were when your voltage drops like it did 12 to 1 or any major voltage loss that normally is your problem don't forget grounds a weak ground anywere can cause weird things to happen.

 

[AgPete139]

Great information, Earl!

 

[bodine465]

Earl, the 93 4.0 autos have the solenoid mounted to the starter, but the concept is the same. The battery side of the solenoid is hot, with 12+ volts to it. That's also where I was taking the measurements, with the ohm meter between that connector and the positive connector on the battery. I've been thinking along the same line as far as the cable. Seems a bit too coincidental that this happened shortly after installing a new battery. Thinking there's enough voltage to give a 12 volt reading at the solenoid, but not enough mass to pass the amperage needed to turn the starter motor. Suppose a new generic positive cable is the next test step. At least I can use it on other rigs if that's not the problem.

And 1994Ranger$$$pit, the way my luck is going, I wouldn't be surprised if the new starter was bad. Wouldn't think it would have the sane exact symptoms, so looks like I'll have an extra starter. Seeing as I've had this rig for 14+ years, I'll probably still have it when this starter goes out.

 

[Earl43P]

Earl, the 93 4.0 autos have the solenoid mounted to the starter, but the concept is the same. The battery side of the solenoid is hot, with 12+ volts to it. That's also where I was taking the measurements, with the ohm meter between that connector and the positive connector on the battery. I've been thinking along the same line as far as the cable. Seems a bit too coincidental that this happened shortly after installing a new battery. Thinking there's enough voltage to give a 12 volt reading at the solenoid, but not enough mass to pass the amperage needed to turn the starter motor. Suppose a new generic positive cable is the next test step. At least I can use it on other rigs if that's not the problem.

And 1994Ranger$$$pit, the way my luck is going, I wouldn't be surprised if the new starter was bad. Wouldn't think it would have the sane exact symptoms, so looks like I'll have an extra starter. Seeing as I've had this rig for 14+ years, I'll probably still have it when this starter goes out.

I don't have the schematic in front of me, but I recall the layout.
So, your starter has two wires, one big gage, one small gage.
Your small gage is working good, actuating the bendix gear.

The large gage cable should be 12v from B+, all the time, and is the power that rotates the motor.
That cable is bad, from what your symptoms describe.

 

[Wolfuss]

The very first move I would make is clean every last connection to ground, between at least 3 points:
Engine to frame
Engine to Body
Body to frame (Cab/Body whatever...)
AND ONE OF THESE TO THE BATTERY, but it will be one of those probably. MAKE SURE

CLEAN BOTH BATTERY TERMINALS and coat them and the clamps with petroleum jelly to keep electrolyte away

You want nothing but silver metal touching in there. (NO BLACK OR GREY CRAP)

*Vaseline is also a good move on chassis ground points because it does a heck of a job at retarding corrosion, keeps the parts easy to undo, and still carries electricity across the gap.

 

[bodine465]

And the winner is..........

Bad positive cable. Picked one up at O'Reilly and she fired right up. Thanks for all the input. Knew it had to be something basic.

 

[Duane867]

Earl, the 93 4.0 autos have the solenoid mounted to the starter, but the concept is the same. The battery side of the solenoid is hot, with 12+ volts to it. That's also where I was taking the measurements, with the ohm meter between that connector and the positive connector on the battery. I've been thinking along the same line as far as the cable. Seems a bit too coincidental that this happened shortly after installing a new battery. Thinking there's enough voltage to give a 12 volt reading at the solenoid, but not enough mass to pass the amperage needed to turn the starter motor. Suppose a new generic positive cable is the next test step. At least I can use it on other rigs if that's not the problem.

And 1994Ranger$$$pit, the way my luck is going, I wouldn't be surprised if the new starter was bad. Wouldn't think it would have the sane exact symptoms, so looks like I'll have an extra starter. Seeing as I've had this rig for 14+ years, I'll probably still have it when this starter goes out.

He just misspoke is all. Was talking about the relay on the fender well more then likely.