Sloppy Steering! Help Please

[Dweano]

Hey guys. For the past long while I have had steering problems. First off. I do have a Stone crusher steering system with a rough country drop arm (Six in lift so I needed something other than stock)

Symptoms:

Whats to wander all over the road, I always seem to need to make corrections. Can't just hold the wheel and have a nice straight drive, its always a chore.
I can move the steering wheel back and forth a little bit (1/8 of a circle maybe) with no response

Anyways I keep getting alignments from a local shop and it never seems to help.

So I used to think the stone crusher steering was just a terrible system (If you have your truck on a lift you can grab the bars and twist them and it sucks the wheels in and out a little bit, which I was thinking was maybe happening on the road making me go all over)

Now I JUST realized that if I grab my steering ...shaft? I dunno if that is the right term, the thing that goes into the power steering, the bar beside the engine. You know what i am talking about. Anyways I can move that back and forth (rotationally, not in and out) and the pitman arm doesn't move. That would at least explain the non-responsiveness!!!

I am assuming this is not normal? Could it also be the cause of my other problems? Any input is appreciated

 

[adsm08]

That could be the cause of a great many problems.

 

[Dweano]

Yeah I can't win with this truck Haha. Saginaw swap?

 

[adsm08]

OK, when you say "steering shaft" I assume you mean the piece that runs from the steering wheel inside the cab to the steering box. You saying "saginaw swap" now makes me think you are actually talking about the pump shaft, which will not cause your issues.

 

[Dweano]

No you were correct on your assumption. That is what I am talking about. I was just thinking it most likely means the power steering unit is shot...might as well upgrade it right?

 

[adsm08]

Just so I can understand your thought process I would like you to explain to me how, in your mind, grabbing the steering column shaft with the engine off (I hope) and it having play translates into a bad power steering pump and not a worn bearing or shaft.

 

[Dweano]

Well I know about ...nothing...about power steering. So when I grab the shaft and it is not tight I assume...well something is broken. I guess it could be the shaft itself. I do not know how those connect the the pump or anything. I really know not much about power steering. If you want to teach me I am all ears

 

[adsm08]

Ok, here is how power steering works.

You have a steering wheel, a steering shaft, a steering box, steering links (also known as tie rods), and a power steering pump with a power valve.

In manual steering the steering wheel and the box are connected by the shaft. The box is then connected to the wheels (the ones on the ground) by the links, commonly called tie-rods. As you turn the steering wheel it turns the input shaft for the box, which has some gears in it (they are not important for this tutorial), and then box pulls the links one way or the other and you turn.

Now a power steering system works exactly the same way, with one little difference. There is a pump that pushes fluid down a line to a part on the box called a "power valve". When the steering box is centered in a straight forward position the valve is closed. When the shaft turns just a little bit in either direction it begins to open the valve up and the fluid starts moving in and applies up to a couple thousand PSI to certain pieces in the internals of the box thereby helping you to turn the wheel.

Most modern systems use a bi-direction electric motor and a steering wheel sensor to accomplish the same task. It sees the wheel start to move and then uses the motor to help turn the wheels.

There is no physical connection between the pump and the shaft.

 

[Dweano]

Ah. That makes sense...and is something I never knew before. Thanks. So when the vehicle is running it changes things because the pump is being powered? I should see if the slop is still there when it is running maybe then?

 

[adsm08]

I should see if the slop is still there when it is running maybe then?

I think a more practical test would be grab the shaft above and below the rag joint and twist in opposite directions, see if the joint is worn out. It sounds to me like you have a worn out physical link, that won't be affected by the hydraulic system being on or off.

 

[Dweano]

Rag joint? Haha

 

[4x4junkie]

Rag joint? Haha

Rubber joint in the steering column shaft (down near the steering box).

If the rubber is rotted then it'll have tons of slop in it.

Another source of slop can also be a loose meshload adjustment of the box itself (adjusted by the bolt on the top-center of the box). Be sure to rule out every other potential source of slop (rag joints, etc.) first before you go messing around with the meshload though, as it's not difficult to adjust it wrong (too tight and you'll bind up the box at best, at worst it'll cause you to lose control of your truck).

 

[adsm08]

R
Another source of slop can also be a loose meshload adjustment of the box itself (adjusted by the bolt on the top-center of the box). Be sure to rule out every other potential source of slop (rag joints, etc.) first before you go messing around with the meshload though, as it's not difficult to adjust it wrong (too tight and you'll bind up the box at best, at worst it'll cause you to lose control of your truck).

^That^. Especially the last part. I'm still not super comfortable adjusting the meshload on a recirculating ball gear box because it is so easy to do it wrong.

At your apparent knowledge and skill level, if you do determine the problem is play in the box, I would recommend replacing it or having someone else do the adjusting.


A bad rag joint is far more likely though, even with your setup. I'm actually kind of amazed that mine haven't worn out yet to be honest.

 

[zekew64]

Actually, adjusting the mesh on a power gear box isn't too hard--at most, when you go to adjust it, you should have no more than 2" of play.

What I mean by the 2" is that from the start of travel at the steering wheel, the wheel should only move 2" through its travel before becoming hard.

The best way to adjust a gear box is to tighten the screw a 1/4 turn and check the steering play. Keep adjusting it until you get to between 2" and 1.5" of play. After that, retighten the locknut to keep it from getting out of adjustment.

Honestly, I did this adjustment on my own truck, and boy...did it make a world of difference. TBH, just go slow, and check things after every adjustment. If you find that you have no slop in your steering wheel, turn the adjusting screw out a 1/2 turn and tighten it up.

And, whoever said it was correct--too tight and you can bind the gears in the box, possibly causing a catastrophic failure within the box and losing control of your truck. You can do this adjustment if you take it slow and check your work. Once you get it to where it feels good, but not overly stiff, tighten up the locknut. That's all there is to it.

 

[Dweano]

OK guys I am bumping this up. I am completely "noobish" when it comes to steering and what not but here is what I found:

I pulled the engine out so I can get to everything nice. The rag joint looks fine, but when I turn the steering wheel. I can turn it back and forth about...I dunno...30 degrees. Say if my hands were at 10 and 2 on the wheel I can move them to about 11 and 3...and the wheels don't move. I can move it back and forth almost that much with nothing happening to the actual wheels.

Is that the 2 inches of play I should have? To me it seems like one should have no play at all?? Should I try tightening up the slop?