Seat Swap Chart that makes it quick and easy to know which Ranger-->Ranger swaps are proven to be quick and easy?

[knuckledragger]

TL;DR: Really wanted a comprehensive, definitive chart for which Ranger-->Ranger seat swaps are easy-peasy. Could not find said chart. Looks like a lot of folks could find that type of chart real helpful so I started designing it. Attached a mockup/sample here, it'd be great to hear your thoughts, ideas, and feedback. It's a chart. You love charts. More info below if you like. And a chart.



Howdy folks. I've been getting an education about seats, thanks to all you folks. It's been easy to find lots of forum threads talking about this or that particular year model seat possibly going into this or that year model truck, but is there anything like a chart or list you can just look up your truck's year and be able to see right off which years' seats you can just "bolt right in"?

Does something like that already exist around here?
If so, can you post the link? If not, I'm thinking I should make one for 1983 - 2011 and populate it with what little bit of info I know, and then invite y'all folks to add your knowledge and verify that what we've got written down is correct. There's so much combined knowledge among TRS folks that I bet it wouldn't take long to get all the verified-correct info together and put it in the chart.

Is there a wiki (or something like it) around here (or elsewhere) that TRS folks typically use for this sort of thing?
If so, please point me to it and I'll construct the chart there and start adding data to it. If there's no TRS-favored wiki or similar, I can just start doing it here - that'd be significantly more clunky but it'll likely still be doable enough. If anyone's got a suggestion for something that will work better than a forum thread, please fire away.

No matter how it gets built, once it all comes together I'd think the finished chart should be submitted for entry into the Tech Library.

Here's a sample of what I'm thinking the chart would look like (go easy now, it's just a rough mockup to give you an idea and I don't swear by any of the info in it, the end product will look nicer and have only verified-accurate info in it). It'd be great to hear your feedback, thoughts and ideas.

Thanks and happy Saturday.

KD

 

[franklin2]

What happened in 1990? I would be curious about this info myself. I had a 1986 ranger, and guy at work gave me a beautiful 60/40 seat from a later ranger to get it out of his garage. I tried to put it in, the back holes would line up, but the front holes where the seat frame horns curve down were too long and would not line up. I was disappointed to say the least.

Is that what happened in 1990, and a 1989 and down seats will interchange?

 

[knuckledragger]

@franklin2 Don't take the info in that mockup chart seriously, it's just a "proof of concept", only for evaluating the design and structure of the proposed chart. The data in the mockup should be considered meaningless.

I know next to nothing about seats. But there are many forum threads about the evolution and interchangeability of seats, and tons of folks here who do have real expertise with seats. Don't take anything from me or the mocked-up chart, take a look at the forum threads and ask the actual experts here.

Btw, what do you think about the design and structure of the mockup chart? Does it work for you? Is it easy enough to understand? Any aspects of it that are lame? Any suggestions for improvements?

 

[Curious Hound]

Anything fits anything if you have enough skill, gumption and the right tools.

 

[franklin2]

@franklin2 Don't take the info in that mockup chart seriously, it's just a "proof of concept", only for evaluating the design and structure of the proposed chart. The data in the mockup should be considered meaningless.

I know next to nothing about seats. But there are many forum threads about the evolution and interchangeability of seats, and tons of folks here who do have real expertise with seats. Don't take anything from me or the mocked-up chart, take a look at the forum threads and ask the actual experts here.

Btw, what do you think about the design and structure of the mockup chart? Does it work for you? Is it easy enough to understand? Any aspects of it that are lame? Any suggestions for improvements?

I like it. Very easy to see what works and what doesn't. I am thinking the chart will sort of look like your test chart, only the years may change. It would be nice to know that info.

 

[JoshT]

Never seen anything of the like around here, and if you really want to cover all rangers you're introducing a whole lot of complexity to the chart.

Right off the bat it's missing an entire subset of fittment issues, extended cab vs standard cab. Thern there's the solid bench seat trucks, most of which are standard cab. There's also acounting for the fact that solid bench seat trucks are missing seat mounting holes that are required for 60/40 or bucket seats. You could put it right there at the top of the chart and people would still ask about it since it isn;t spelled out in the body.

Then there the endless questions by people looking at the table. "Table says this swap take more work, but what is needed?" "Can you give a pin out of what wires to connect and where?" "Can you hold my hand and walk me through the process?" "Can you just do it for me?"

Inevitably there will be at least a handfull of people come along with something like... "I pulled Cobalt seats out of a 3rd gen extended cab Ranger (where they were mounted with self tappers and blocks of wood) at the salvage yard and they aren't fitting in my 1st gen regular cab, but the chart says they 3rd gen Ranger seats fit. Why not working???" Yes, I pulled that out my a$$, but you'll eventually find something similar referring back to the chart or "TRS said".

Not trying to discourage your taking the initiative, just not sure why anyone would want to take on that headache.

 

[Li'l Work Truck]

If each cell was a link to a forum post with an explanation (or someone's build thread), that would be hugely beneficial. A lot can be said about taking the time to create such a comprehensive resource.

 

[franklin2]

Never seen anything of the like around here, and if you really want to cover all rangers you're introducing a whole lot of complexity to the chart.

Right off the bat it's missing an entire subset of fittment issues, extended cab vs standard cab. Thern there's the solid bench seat trucks, most of which are standard cab. There's also acounting for the fact that solid bench seat trucks are missing seat mounting holes that are required for 60/40 or bucket seats. You could put it right there at the top of the chart and people would still ask about it since it isn;t spelled out in the body.

Then there the endless questions by people looking at the table. "Table says this swap take more work, but what is needed?" "Can you give a pin out of what wires to connect and where?" "Can you hold my hand and walk me through the process?" "Can you just do it for me?"

Inevitably there will be at least a handfull of people come along with something like... "I pulled Cobalt seats out of a 3rd gen extended cab Ranger (where they were mounted with self tappers and blocks of wood) at the salvage yard and they aren't fitting in my 1st gen regular cab, but the chart says they 3rd gen Ranger seats fit. Why not working???" Yes, I pulled that out my a$$, but you'll eventually find something similar referring back to the chart or "TRS said".

Not trying to discourage your taking the initiative, just not sure why anyone would want to take on that headache.

That is what these boards are all about, interaction between people looking for information, and getting hit with ads all at the same time.

 

[JoshT]

@franklin2 I think you completely missed the point of what I was saying. Go back and try again.

Also, if you're getting hit with ads, you're doing something wrong.

 

[Li'l Work Truck]

@franklin2 I think you completely missed the point of what I was saying. Go back and try again.

Also, if you're getting hit with ads, you're doing something wrong.

This site has ads. That's what he meant.

 

[JoshT]

This site has ads. That's what he meant.

and if you're seeing them, you're doing something wrong. That's what I meant. There are several ways to fix it, the only one I'm going to post here is subscribe.

Like with his initially saying it, that has nothing to do with the topic at hand. If y'all want to complain about getting hit with ads, do so in another thread in the appropriate place, IE the "Report Site Problems" subforum.

 

[Li'l Work Truck]

I'm not complaining, Josh - just explaining. I do not see them. I'm afraid you missed his joke. However, that's as far as I'm willing to involve myself. Have a good day.

 

[knuckledragger]

I like it. Very easy to see what works and what doesn't. I am thinking the chart will sort of look like your test chart, only the years may change. It would be nice to know that info.

@franklin2 Thanks for the feedback. You're right, my current thinking is that the chart will look pretty much like the example (unless someone smarter than me comes up with a better, more effective design), and the current vision is to cover all years 1983 - 2011. Feel free to chime in with any ideas or suggestions anytime down the road. Thanks!

 

[knuckledragger]

@JoshT Thank you for putting solid thought into it and for your insights. Definitely valuable! After thinking about the things you noticed and pointed out, I have some ideas for how we might be able to address/solve potential issues in advance. I'll go through the ideas in the same order you did.

Never seen anything of the like around here,

Good to know - I'd hate to duplicate work someone else already did.

and if you really want to cover all rangers you're introducing a whole lot of complexity to the chart. Right off the bat it's missing an entire subset of fittment issues, extended cab vs standard cab.

You're totally right about that. The smallest, easiest solution might be to just put a BIG heading at the top of the chart that says something like:

"EXTENDED CAB SEATS ARE NEVER A "BOLT RIGHT IN" SWAP FOR A STANDARD CAB TRUCK, AND STANDARD CAB SEATS ARE NEVER A "BOLT RIGHT IN" SWAP FOR AN EXTENDED CAB TRUCK. IF YOU'RE TRYING TO PUT SEATS IN A STANDARD CAB TRUCK, ASSUME THIS CHART APPLIES TO SEATS FROM A STANDARD CAB TRUCK ONLY. IF YOU'RE TRYING TO PUT SEATS IN AN EXTENDED CAB TRUCK, ASSUME THIS CHART APPLIES TO SEATS FROM AN EXTENDED CAB TRUCK ONLY."

What do you think? Would something like that make it clear enough?

If not, a larger, more difficult solution would be to have 2 separate charts, one for just standard cab trucks and a separate one for just extended cab trucks. Not necessarily totally opposed to that but I'd rather skip it unless really necessary.

Thern there's the solid bench seat trucks, most of which are standard cab. There's also acounting for the fact that solid bench seat trucks are missing seat mounting holes that are required for 60/40 or bucket seats. You could put it right there at the top of the chart and people would still ask about it since it isn;t spelled out in the body.

Lol right again. I'd say that where solid bench seat trucks are missing the seat mounting holes required for 60/40 or bucket seats, the way to spell it out in the chart would be to make sure the chart's cell for that swap is a bright solid red (meaning it's a no-go, so painful it's not worth it). I'd like to think that'd make the point crystal clear to everyone who's not literally blind

Then there the endless questions by people looking at the table. "Table says this swap take more work, but what is needed?" "Can you give a pin out of what wires to connect and where?" "Can you hold my hand and walk me through the process?"

I suppose the best response for those type questions would be something like:

"Good question Rangerino! Sadly, I don't know the answer. But there's a high probability that the answers you seek are in the forum threads. So take a good look in the forums and if then if your extensive searching didn't turn up the answers, you can start up a new forum thread and most likely some kind and knowledgeable stranger(s) will help you get it figured out."

"Can you just do it for me?"

haha, I think you'll agree that the obvious answer to this one would be.....

"There's this guy Josh, they call him The Seat Genius. He literally can't get enough of doing volunteer seat swaps for folks, especially if he's never even heard of them before and they have no clue what they're doing! Great attitude and a sweet set of tools too. He's available most weekdays and every weekend, doesn't mind working late into the night - in fact a 17 hour day is kinda his jam. Will he come to your house? You bet! He'll buy you lunch too. Feel free to hit him up anytime day or night, and if you don't hear back right away just try and try again numerous times every day! He won't mind. And oh yeah, he hates to disappoint anybody."

Lol did I get it right?

Inevitably there will be at least a handfull of people come along with something like... "I pulled Cobalt seats out of a 3rd gen extended cab Ranger (where they were mounted with self tappers and blocks of wood) at the salvage yard and they aren't fitting in my 1st gen regular cab, but the chart says they 3rd gen Ranger seats fit. Why not working???"

Omg man you are totally correct. Holy heck it's way too easy to imagine this. Suddenly I'm feeling a throbbing in my temples, gonna hafta lie down in a minute if I can't put your scenario out of my head. Man you really know how to knock a person for a loop lol.

Seriously though, I think it's another case of politely advising them to seek info and help from the forums. And possibly from a psychiatrist. After all, it's just a chart for your run-of-the-mill swaps with stock equipment, it's not the official comprehensive instruction manual for every edge case ever encountered by any wingnut.

In the end, there's no fix and no guidebook for being a bonehead (lol I wish - take it from a bonehead who knows). I think if the finished chart can help 75% of the non-boneheaded, that'd be a solid win, and the other 25% non-boneheaded will know how to go about finding the answer by diligent research and politely asking good folks like you. As for the boneheaded, well I guess boneheads just gonna bonehead, and not much anybody can do about that. (source: decades of first-person experience)

Yes, I pulled that out my a$$, but you'll eventually find something similar referring back to the chart or "TRS said".

Yep, nailed it again. Even my example mockup probably should've had a big fat disclaimer to the effect of:
NOTE: Yo Rangerino, this here chart, it ain't the Gospel According to TRS and because out there in the real world of real Rangers there's all kinds of wacky sh*t on the road, you probably shouldn't ever be surprised if you run into something that doesn't work the way you or anybody else thought it would or should. If it turns out you've got a situation like that on your hands, well, you went out and got yourself a Ranger because you wanted a fun adventure, remember? Here you go! Keep at it and let us know as your adventure keeps shaping up!"

What do you think? Would that head off most of that problem?

Not trying to discourage your taking the initiative, just not sure why anyone would want to take on that headache.

Hmm... well like I said, I guess boneheads just gonna bonehead.

Maybe I'm living on fantasy island but I've mostly been thinking that once the chart's verified to the best of our collective ability, it's a static document, should be no need to update it any further. So, as I've been imagining it anyway, the biggest headache would be the process of getting all the info and verifying it, and the second-biggest headache would making the chart itself in such a way that the reader would find it a no-brainer to read. But maybe it's me that's being the no-brainer. It's been known to happen... a lot.

Really good food for thought man, totally appreciate it. Any suggestions for a better outcome?

Technical questions:

• What year(s) had a solid bench?
• Which solid bench years are missing the seat mounting holes required for 60/40 or bucket seats?
• Feel like throwing down any for-sure info about which Ranger-->Ranger seat swaps are and/or aren't a "bolt right in" swap?

KD

 

[knuckledragger]

If each cell was a link to a forum post with an explanation (or someone's build thread), that would be hugely beneficial. A lot can be said about taking the time to create such a comprehensive resource.

@Li'l Work Truck that is a fantastic idea, hadn't thought of anything that cool. Not sure how to do it with the tools currently available to me. Actually, now that I think of it, that's another reason that being able to make the chart on a wiki would be great - wiki's I've used before make putting links in tables and charts really easy. Do you have any ideas about good ways to make a chart or table that handles adding links and makes it easy to do?

And I might as well ask while I'm at it, do you have any for-sure info about which Ranger-->Ranger seat swaps are and/or aren't a "bolt right in" swap?

KD