?s about wiring my system

[ForOffRoadDriving]

heres what i got: 1994 ford ranger extended cab with a kenwood kdc 119 hu (45w x 4 max, im guessing around 22w x 4 rms), 4 mtx xt573 speakers (260w max, but i getting conflicting info on the actual rms; 25w on the mtx site vs 65w on a google search), 2 mtx rt202 2 channel amplifiers (37w rms per channel, 150w rms bridged @ 4 ohms), and 2 8" pyramid sub woofers (100w rms, i know theyre shitty speakers but ill upgrade them when $ permits).

i was initally going to run the mtx speakers off from the HU, but after installing 2 of them in rear they sounded like crap as if they were being under powered, so i pulled them out and put the LA speakers i was using back in. i drew up this diagram of how i planned to run the subs off from the amps, but now im thinking i might need to reconfigure my drawing to run the speakers off the amps and if i can, run 1 sub bridged off each amp.

is it possible to run the front speakers off each channel on 1 amp and then run the sub off from the designated "bridge" terminals also or am i going to be too short on power and possibly kill all my equipment? i know everyones answer will probably be to throw those amps away and go buy something "huge", but i got these because they worked with my initial plan and they take up (or dont take up) the perfect amount of space.

i planned to mount 1 amp on each side of that cargo basket on the back wall by glueing 1/2" thick plywood on each side, behind the carpet, and then screwing the amps to the wood through the carpet. this way i can run all my wires behind the carpet and just cut slits in the carpet so the wire can pop out and hook in cleanly.

 

[ForOffRoadDriving]

looks like i will need to study crossovers for a bit so i can learn how they work and how they will benefit my set up. another question, by running all my highs off from the one amp, i will essentially only have a left and right and no differentiation between front and rear correct? that would probably be fine becuase i currently run the fade right in the middle and i think it sounds best in that setting, but that may change once i send more power to them? thanks for the answers, im just starting to probe deeper into the audio world (deeper than i did in high school, where everything got a butt connector and the more subs the better mentality ran wild).

 

[tylork92]

heres the best thing for you to do....that diagram was just confusing.....
1) invest in a good (Kicker, KnuKonceptz, Streetwires) 1/0 amp kit
2)go buy you a distribution black (Stinger has one that has 2 1/0 inputs and 4 4awg outputs) as well as many other brands but you need at least 1 1/0 input and a few 4 awg outputs
3) Invest in a 4 channel amp to run you door speakers off of (look into brands such as MB Quart and Hifonics....they are budget companies but would work PERFECTLY for your application)
4) Use one of your MTX amps bridged per subwoofer.
5) wire it all up
-wire the 1/0 from battery to the back of your extended cab part. Find a place to mount the distro block and run 4 awg wire to each amp. Use 4 awg wire to run grounds for each amp as well. It works out REALLY well to measure a piece of MDF or regular plywood to fit on the rear floorboard (i have a 93 and this is what i did) and mount everything on it and use another piece of wood to make a cover even with that annoyingass back hump. this way you really dont loose any room (in my case i had to do it to fit my sub box) If you want some pics i can get em for you.

 

[Original_Ranger84]

+1 Thats pretty much wht you should do...

Running a sub off of the same ports you are powering speakers will probably kill something...

 

[4x4fun]

heres the best thing for you to do....that diagram was just confusing.....

lol noob

if im understandin you right you can run each sub off the bridged amp. but then you cant run speakers off of it too. thats a no no.

but you can take that third amp and run your front two speakers on one channel and the back two on the other channel. but youll need to upgrade your dis block. and up grading to a 0/1 will be need be need here soon

 

[ForOffRoadDriving]

thanks guys, so what i really need is 1 more amp then. how big should it be wattage wise, another 200 or maybe a 400? i was going to buy this rtp202 (45x2rms) http://www.mtx.com/caraudio/products/amplifiers/rtp202.cfm when i was watching the second rt202(37wx2rms) on ebay, incase i got out bid, but i won the auction and didnt yet know about this little speaker-power issue. is 0/1 really necessary? the manuals say to run 10ga so i figured by feeding 4ga from the battery to the splitter block and then running 6ga from there to the amps i would still have plenty of power? getting power is not an issue because i have dual batteries and a 130amp alternator, so i its necesary i can run bigger cables (i used military style battery lugs so i just have to solder a ring terminal onto the power cable and it easily gets connected to the battery.

i think i can handle running another amp and finding a place to hide it shouldnt be too difficult if i stay with one close to the same size as the 2 i already have (which the rtp202 is). i dont have any objections to running my fronts and backs on only 2 channels, but what will this do sound wise? will it still have the stereo effect or will it be changing the L & R signal to F & B if that makes any sense? maybe im just still confused, i am still a noob!

 

[4x4fun]

as far as the third amp for highs. 200rms over 4 should be good. anything above what the HU is putting out. if you run a2 channel. you can have R to L or F to B depending on how you wire it up. and you can prolly get away with 2 gag, concidering your running three small amps, but with a third amp your really starting to push the 4 gage

 

[ForOffRoadDriving]

thanks alot for your insight 4x4 fun, i know if i follow your advice ill be happy with the out come. so do you think that the RTP202 will be enough to power my highs (i ask because i can get it for $50 new in box and its the same size and shape as the others so i can paint it to match the others). also how will i go about running rca cables to all of these amps? will i need a cross over box or is there something similar to the power distibution block that i can plug the pair of cables from my head unit into and then run 3 other sets to each of the other amps, or should i just run them in a series using the input and output ports. will this delay my sound timing running them in series like this?

 

[4x4fun]

thanks alot for your insight 4x4 fun, i know if i follow your advice ill be happy with the out come. so do you think that the RTP202 will be enough to power my highs (i ask because i can get it for $50 new in box and its the same size and shape as the others so i can paint it to match the others). also how will i go about running rca cables to all of these amps? will i need a cross over box or is there something similar to the power distibution block that i can plug the pair of cables from my head unit into and then run 3 other sets to each of the other amps, or should i just run them in a series using the input and output ports. will this delay my sound timing running them in series like this?

the 202 will work just fine. its 75 watts per channel at 2ohms. and your going to be running two 4ohms speaker in parrell to give you a 2 ohms load per channel.

as far as rca's your HU should have a HIGH output, and a sub or rear out put.

you can "Y" or daisy the subs because there cause they will be ran in mono any way.
and the HIGH will be going into one amp so no worries there.

there are signal processors(equalizers) out there you can plug everything into and go that way. but i think its over kill for what your doing. IDK the capasity of your HU.

i think if you run the LPF's on y our subs and the HPF on your highs youll be pretty darn close considering your running that same 3 amps. so your H/L x over will all be the same. as far as DTA thats a HU thing i dont know if you can with that one

 

[ForOffRoadDriving]

im pretty sure i only have one pair of out puts in the back, a L and a R. i guess i might have to put my old sony or pioneer in to make it work the way i want. i have a bad ass kenwood kdc x759 (http://www.crutchfield.com/p_113KDCX759/Kenwood-KDC-X759.html?tp=5684&tab=features_and_specs)with 3d screen saver display and 3 sets of out puts on it, but it doesnt want to turn on and i didnt want to sink too much money into it since ive never seen it work (it was my girlfriends fathers and i think it may have gone into lock mode when he removed it from his truck?). i sent it to a stereo repair guy that my friend knows, but with out the security code he couldnt get it to do anything other than give him the cd back that had been trapped inside since it was removed from said car.

 

[ForOffRoadDriving]

i just bought one of these http://www.mtx.com/caraudio/products/amplifiers/rtp202.cfm (for a much better price, $40.00 NIB), so hopefully this will get me going again, after i take care of my fuel gauge problem today (gotta pull the pump back out and check resistance on the sender to see if that is the cause of my "lazy" fuel needle). keep on with the feed back i appreciate all of it guys! (EDIT: fuel gauge problem fixed, pictures are on the last page of my build thread)

 

[ForOffRoadDriving]

has anyone ever had to send in a HU for factory repair (where and how did you send it)? if it costs me $100 to get this kenwood exceleron unit fixed that would be fine cause it would get me that much closer to hooking things up and it would keep it simple having those 3 sets of outputs.

 

[RangerSVT]

Before you bought the third amp, I would have wired both left 5x7's to the left channel and the two right 5x7's to the right in parellel, giving you a 2 ohm stereo load. Take the second amp and depending on what ohm the subs are ( never specified if 4 ohm or 8 ohm), if they are 4 ohm subs, and your amp can handle a 2 ohm mono load (check the specs, some MTX amps could), I'd run the subs parellel to the amp's bridging terminals. If the amp can only handle a 4 ohm mono load, I'd series the subs to the bridging terminals. Since you now have 3 amps, take the highest power amp and it goes to subs, the next highest power goes to rear 5x7s, and the lowest power amp to front 5x7s. Your HU should have front and rear RCA outputs, run the rear output to the sub amp, the front to the front amp(s). If you run two amps for 5x7s, run splitters for the RCAs if the amp dont have RCA outputs. If you only have one set RCAs, then run through the amp, with the sub amp at the end of the line and use the internal x-overs, but set the output RCAs to full. With the amps you have, 8 gauge wire going to each amp will be plenty, 4 gauge wire feeding a distribution block will be ok, 2 gauge better, anything larger and your wasting money. This will give you a well balanced and the best sounding system for what you have. Have fun
SVT

 

[ForOffRoadDriving]

thanks ranger svt, i guess i forgot to mention the subs are 4ohm and i guess thats one of the fundamentals im missing is how to figure out ohm loads and how they change depending on whether you wire them together or separate. i know that a 4 ohm speaker has 4 layers of wire winding on the magnet end, so if i wire 2 subs together that would give me 8 layers total, so how does the ohm rating work in relation to that?

 

[RangerSVT]

Wiring two subs in parallel is attained by taking both positives of the subs and going into the positive terminal of the amp, and taking both negatives of the subs and going into the negative terminal of the amp. This drops the ohm load at the amp from two 4 ohm subs to a single 2 ohm load(2 ohm mono when bridging an amp)...Series wiring is attained by taking the positive of one sub and connecting it to the negative of the opposite sub, the remaining terminals, one from each sub, will make one positive and one negative, which go to the bridging terminals of the amp. This raises the ohm load at the amp from two 4 ohm subs to a single 8 ohm load(8 ohm mono load when bridging an amp). To further explain the way different ohm loads affect an amp's power output...If an amp's power is rated at 400 watts when bridged at 4 ohms (4 ohm mono), and your subs are wired for 2 ohm mono load, dropping the ohm load decreases resistance. By reducing the load by half (4ohms to 2ohms) you effectively double the output of the amp, so your amp is now producing 800 watts of power, but since you have 2 subs, the power needs to be equally divided amoung all the subs, so each sub will have 400 watts at this load, providing your amp can handle this load. If you wire it to an 8ohm mono load, you are increasing the resistance meaning you reduce the power, from 400 to 200 watts, and then divide by the number of subs you have, and you come out with 100 watts each sub. The benefit from running a higher ohm load is your amp requires less amperage from your electrical system, as well as producing a better quality/cleaner sound/less distortion. The lower the ohm load, the more amperage your electrical system will have to produce, and the more distortion will result. The higher distortion is not as noticeable in lower frequencies than it is in higher frequencies. Today's amps produce much lower distortion levels, so even dropping an amp down to 2 ohm load for highs and mids still produce good clean sound, unnoticeable to the human ear. I hope this helps explain the audio system a little better, any other questions, feel free to ask
SVT