propane propane

[kaskirov]

so yesterday i went to a propane refueling station to check the price. it is $0.76/L, vs $1.34/L for gas. my dad's motor home is on a E-450 chassis and can run off gas or propane with the flick of a switch. that means you can get propane kits for fuel injection. i seen kits on the internet for under 4 grand, so it could pay for itself within 4 years. I know propane gets less millage, what kind of cut is it? is propane worth the cost? would it devalue my truck?

 

[hitech_hick]

so yesterday i went to a propane refueling station to check the price. it is $0.76/L, vs $1.34/L for gas. my dad's motor home is on a E-450 chassis and can run off gas or propane with the flick of a switch. that means you can get propane kits for fuel injection. i seen kits on the internet for under 4 grand, so it could pay for itself within 4 years. I know propane gets less millage, what kind of cut is it? is propane worth the cost? would it devalue my truck?

All of the kits that I have found are for carbs, not fuel injection. I am fairly sure that all of the fuel injection propane powered vehicles out there are propane from the factory (most of which I have scene are Ford crown vics). If you have found an after market fuel injection kit it would definitely be something to look into.


hick

 

[Jspafford]

I don't know how much effort I would put into a propane conversion.

We sell propane here for well over $4 a gallon.

I am sure everyone else is not far behind.

 

[MAKG]

And propane has only 75% the energy content of gasoline, so expect a proportionate mileage drop (if done perfectly). Since stoichiometric for propane is quite different from gasoline, I'd expect some serious fuel trim and HEGO sensor issues.

Not to mention inappropriate compression....

 

[Evan]

Propane runs quite well in a carb engine. The conversion is fairly easy and fairly cheap. My "dream rig" would have a propane powered 302.

EFI is a much different story. I would not recommend trying the conversion. With all the time and $$$ you'd spend you could swap a carb motor in, and you might never get the EFI to burn propane correctly.

 

[WildSide]

It’s a shame that comparisons are made between gasoline and propane using an engine designed for gasoline, even though gasoline has a higher energy density, propane is the superior and more efficient fuel. If you were to run two optimized engines side by side each designed to run on their specific fuel there would be little difference in mileage or power.
Proper Electronic propane injection systems either gaseous or liquid work very well with no issues on a well designed engine by the way.

 

[MAKG]

It’s a shame that comparisons are made between gasoline and propane using an engine designed for gasoline, even though gasoline has a higher energy density, propane is the superior and more efficient fuel. If you were to run two optimized engines side by side each designed to run on their specific fuel there would be little difference in mileage or power.
Proper Electronic propane injection systems either gaseous or liquid work very well with no issues on a well designed engine by the way.

Umm, BS.

A gallon of propane has 75% as much energy as a gallon of gasoline. The efficiency limit is mostly thermal, plus valve timing, plus geometry (crank position isn't optimal except at one point). None of those changes significantly for propane.

Propane is more "efficient" than gasoline for carbureted engines because it is mixed in gas phase. It is NOT more efficient than properly working EFI.

So, you have no room to make up that 25% loss. Even with perfect compression and perfect stoichiometry.

 

[Will]

So what he's saying is, it's better than gasoline in a carbed engine, but not better than gasoline in an EFI engine.

But it's not worth converting. It's more expensive than gasoline when I fill up my bottles. Always has been. For Canadians, maybe not. I don't know. But we are at the point where getting a $1,000 shitbox to drive and keep the Ranger in reserve and for recreation is economically viable.

 

[bobbywalter]

So what he's saying is, it's better than gasoline in a carbed engine, but not better than gasoline in an EFI engine.

But it's not worth converting. It's more expensive than gasoline when I fill up my bottles. Always has been. For Canadians, maybe not. I don't know. But we are two years past the point where getting a $1,000 shitbox to drive and keep the Ranger in reserve and for recreation is economically viable.

fixed it for ya...



propane works on efi engines too btw, and there are kits out there.

 

[WildSide]

Umm, BS.

A gallon of propane has 75% as much energy as a gallon of gasoline. The efficiency limit is mostly thermal, plus valve timing, plus geometry (crank position isn't optimal except at one point). None of those changes significantly for propane.

Propane is more "efficient" than gasoline for carbureted engines because it is mixed in gas phase. It is NOT more efficient than properly working EFI.

So, you have no room to make up that 25% loss. Even with perfect compression and perfect stoichiometry.

BS BS you are thinking that an engine uses the full potential energy per pound of fuel?

 

[bobbywalter]

no he is being reletive.



i fogged my truck with my app torch to go a few miles more then a few times.


its tricky and gets the starter hot but works.

 

[Evan]

But it's not worth converting.

No, not for economic purposes.

The reason you run propane is for offroad purposes. It gives you most of the benefits of EFI with the simplicity of a carbed engine, at the cost of a little less power. In the case of an RBV you'd run a 302 though, so you'd end up with about the same power as stock.

 

[ejholmgren]

So what he's saying is, it's better than gasoline in a carbed engine, but not better than gasoline in an EFI engine.

But it's not worth converting. It's more expensive than gasoline when I fill up my bottles. Always has been. For Canadians, maybe not. I don't know. But we are at the point where getting a $1,000 shitbox to drive and keep the Ranger in reserve and for recreation is economically viable.

my $1,000 shitbox is a ranger

 

[Will]

Touche'

 

[kaskirov]

wow... didn't expect a whole flame war. so not worth it on fuel injection? oh well, i'll wait for the 2011 trucks....