Problem starting

[tootalltechie]

2.9L 86 ranger 450,000 km
Ran last night, snowed 8 inches, won't start in the morning. The person that drove it got stuck in a snow bank (drive way , not me lol)
1 fuel pump running
2 fuel pressure in fuel rail
3 spark at coil
4 starter cranks engine
5 y pipe needs replacing
FPR replaced 1yr ago, found ground wire broken for ECM at same time, fixed

ran KOEO test but I could not warm engine so this might mean nothing
codes:
21 Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT) sensor out of range - ECT
24 Intake Air Temperature (IAT) or Vane Air Temperature (VAT) sensor out of range - IAT VAT
34 EVP - (R) EGR did not respond properly during test - EVP

The last time this ocured it was the ground wire for the ECM (as noted above). If I could read what codes I did would that mean that the ground wire is ok?
Is there more than one ground wire for the ECM?

What to test next?

 

[IMenriched]

Might just have a cracked distributer cab from the snow.

ALSO start with checking the TFI (aka ignition module)

the broken Y pipe could be letting the O2 sensor not read correctly

 

[tootalltechie]

mmmm

Might just have a cracked distributor cab from the snow.

ALSO start with checking the TFI (aka ignition module)

the broken Y pipe could be letting the O2 sensor not read correctly

The truck got backed into the snow bank so no snow got up under the hood.
How would the O2 sensor stop the truck from starting?
I have to research the TFI module.

 

[IMenriched]

The truck got backed into the snow bank so no snow got up under the hood.
How would the O2 sensor stop the truck from starting?
I have to research the TFI module.

try checking/resetting the interia switch, passanger side floorboard...approx where the passangersleft foot would be.

you mentioned that you have spark at the coil...do you have spark at the plugs???

no a bad or misreading O2 sensor "shouldn't prevent" it from starting....but it will make it run pretty crappy. when was the last time you had new plugs & wires?? with a miss reading O2, your prolly running very rich and fouled the plugs...now with colder weather it is very much flooded, had it been warmer the flood condition would have shown up much sooner.

There is a fuseable link near the battery..may want to check that.

Is this a stick or Auto tranny...maybe the safety neutral switch is frozen

check all connections and grounds yes you got the one for the ecm...but there is like 5 under the hood.

 

[Psychopete]

Are you actually getting any fuel into the cylinders? If you have fuel and spark, it should run. But OTOH, I've heard of bad TFIs screwing up the timing and causing a no start. Could be somewhat verifiable with checking the timing with a timing light. But definitely make sure the injectors are actually functioning.

Pete

 

[tootalltechie]

update

try checking/resetting the inertia switch, passenger side floorboard...approx where the passangers left foot would be.

you mentioned that you have spark at the coil...do you have spark at the plugs???

no a bad or misreading O2 sensor "shouldn't prevent" it from starting....but it will make it run pretty crappy. when was the last time you had new plugs & wires?? with a miss reading O2, your probably running very rich and fouled the plugs...now with colder weather it is very much flooded, had it been warmer the flood condition would have shown up much sooner.

There is a fuseable link near the battery..may want to check that.

Is this a stick or Auto tranny...maybe the safety neutral switch is frozen

check all connections and grounds yes you got the one for the ecm...but there is like 5 under the hood.

I changed the plugs and wires the last time this happened, about 1 year ago.
It did not run crappy, just very loud.
I think all my fuseable links are good because I was able to do a partial KOEO test.
Its a stick, TK5, I just replaced the shift lever, different thread.
This is a no no but the clutch safety switch and the inertia switch are no longer in truck, by passed. Also do not have a catalytic converter.
I have to check spark at plugs, and plugs for fouling. out side temp is going to be above zero today.
If I clear the codes in the EEC it might have an effect on the possible flooding situation, correct?

grounds:
battery to rad support ok.
battery to EEC I think its ok, I think I would have to check this at the EEC connector.
Ground for head lights and other lights ok, lights work
Main ground on negative battery terminal ok, starter cranks.
Ground at starter solenoid ok, starter cranks.
Ground at fuel pump relay ok, fuel pump works.
There are probably more but I can not think of them at the moment.

 

[tootalltechie]

checking injectors?

Are you actually getting any fuel into the cylinders? If you have fuel and spark, it should run. But OTOH, I've heard of bad TFIs screwing up the timing and causing a no start. Could be somewhat verifiable with checking the timing with a timing light. But definitely make sure the injectors are actually functioning.

Pete

How would I check the injectors?
Just see if fuel is in the cylinder?
I checked my plugs, and took pictures of one.
rich mixture, high speed glazing?
Going to try starter fluid to see if it fires and dies or what.

 

[tootalltechie]

update

I used starter fluid and it started:
Real rough at first, but it slowly got better but not perfect.
It idles @ 1000 rpm stumbling every once and a while.
Going to add injector cleaner, and gas line anti freeze on the next fill up of 87 octane.
But it does run better ethanol-blended gasoline, 91 octane, Husky Energy.

 

[IMenriched]

I used starter fluid and it started:
Real rough at first, but it slowly got better but not perfect.
It idles @ 1000 rpm stumbling every once and a while.
Going to add injector cleaner, and gas line anti freeze on the next fill up of 87 octane.
But it does run better ethanol-blended gasoline, 91 octane, Husky Energy.

SO.... it runs without the starter fuild?? does it start on its own too?

did you put new plugs in?

may want to do a compression check.

there is a ground wire on the back side of the head or block on the passanger side that goes to the TFI...thinking that it is a Orange wire ....was on mine anyway....may want to double check it

 

[tootalltechie]

update

While checking grounds, I did remove the ground from the battery terminal.
Went and got gas, ethanol-blended gasoline, 90 octane added injector cleaner, and gas line anti freeze
Truck started on its own coming home.
No new plugs, no further checking done ie: I did not check TFI or the distributor cab

I just went out to see if it would start, no hesitation it started. mmmmm is this going to be intermittent or what

 

[tootalltechie]

update

I went to Princess Auto to pick up some stuff and it almost did not start. The weather outside warm snow/rain. Same as last time it did not want to start. I think it might be a damp electrical system problem.

 

[IMenriched]

I went to Princess Auto to pick up some stuff and it almost did not start. The weather outside warm snow/rain. Same as last time it did not want to start. I think it might be a damp electrical system problem.

does to it roll over well with starter or does it roller over slow when it doesn't want to start or almost not start?

Or....DID it start fine cold??? then when semi or fully warm (after get your gas)...turn over fine but took longer on the starter then normal and then stumlbe and missed a bit before smoothing out.

 

[tootalltechie]

does to it roll over well with starter or does it roller over slow when it doesn't want to start or almost not start?

Or....DID it start fine cold??? then when semi or fully warm (after get your gas)...turn over fine but took longer on the starter then normal and then stumble and missed a bit before smoothing out.

The starter will roll over the engine with no problem, just like normal, good.
I think the engine did not have time to fully cool down when it hesitated the other day.
When idling I think I hear it missing once in a while and not at a regular rate.
I also can not set the idle lower than 1000 rpm or the stumbling gets worse.
all this is a cold engine. I have not tried to adjust idle lower when warm.

Once it started at Princess Auto it ran fine.

 

[Psychopete]

You might check out what the ECT and ACT are doing circuit wise. I wonder about the reference voltage it's getting, and if the connection is intermittent. A wiring diagram will show that there is a circuit in relation to 3 things that the computer complained about. But there is also MAP and TPS in the same circuit, hard to say.

Some people have had issues restarting an engine when it sat for 10-20 minutes. ECT was telling the computer to richen the mixture too much and prevented the truck from starting. But definitely do some diagnostics to determine that's the problem. But certain does sound like the problem you're experiencing, but it could be something in the circuit as opposed to the sensor itself.

ECT Testing:
http://www.fordfuelinjection.com/?p=28

ACT Testing:
http://www.fordfuelinjection.com/?p=29

Pete

Edit:

Also, the screw on the TPS is not an adjustment for the idle, it's to set the base voltage for the TPS sensor. The computer controls the idle speed.

 

[jaymegriffiths]

try checking/resetting the interia switch, passanger side floorboard...approx where the passangersleft foot would be.

you mentioned that you have spark at the coil...do you have spark at the plugs???

no a bad or misreading O2 sensor "shouldn't prevent" it from starting....but it will make it run pretty crappy. when was the last time you had new plugs & wires?? with a miss reading O2, your prolly running very rich and fouled the plugs...now with colder weather it is very much flooded, had it been warmer the flood condition would have shown up much sooner.

There is a fuseable link near the battery..may want to check that.

Is this a stick or Auto tranny...maybe the safety neutral switch is frozen

check all connections and grounds yes you got the one for the ecm...but there is like 5 under the hood.

if nuetral safety switch was stuck it wouldn't crank. OP said it cranked