Pinging 3.0- Need help from sensor experts

[oldfordman]

Bought a 99 XLT, Flex fuel 3.0, 92K miles. Pings at 2800-3200 rpm under light to medium load. Not throwing any codes. Also have a short "flair out" like it's flattening out about 3800-4000 rpm under a heavy load, lasts about 2 seconds, then picks up again. I have replaced the DPFE, the EGR tube (was split), the EGR valve, EGR vacuum solenoid, and even the MAF. Full tune-up. Running one step colder plugs (#AP-495, same as the Motocraft #12) Each of these have helped slightly, but I still have the midrange pinging, although much less than it was. Have Sea Foamed 3 times- got a lot of stuff out the first 2 times, nothing on the third. Checked all over for vacuum leaks, cannot find any, have not pulled the intake off yet. Fuel pressure is 55 PSI. Running Shell 93 almost eliminates it. Pinging is less in the rain, worse in dry weather (yeah, I have kept track of it). Air temp is not a factor and the sensor works. The MAF the auto store gave me is a F82F-12B579-EA, but I find on-line that it should be F67F-12B579-EA, at one site the F82F sensor is only listed for a 2.5 liter 4 cyl, but Cardone lists the same sensor for both. Are they the same? I think the MAF may be giving low readings, but not enough to throw a code. I bought a scanner, but don't know what the sensor ranges should be. While stopped in Park, the MAF has an output of 4.5 grams/sec at 900 rpm, increases to 13.7 at 2500 rpm. While driving, I can get a max MAF output of 106 g/sec at 4300 rpm under a heavy load. Timing, fuel trims, O2 sensors all seem to be fluctuating quickly, so I think those are OK. If I could attach a file, I could give you all the data as an Excel file with graphs. Sorry for the long post, wanted to get all the info at the beginning. Any suggestions? Thanks

 

[JP02XLT]

Sounds like you have covered most of the known causes, One thing I would try is a 180 degree thermostat also, As for your fuel pressure your on the low end of the known "good" scale for pressure, That might be a major cause, I know the 3.0's run much better when the rail pressure is 60 or above, I had major issues with my 02 Supercharged 3.0 with rail pressure of 58 psi. You also mentioned that with Shell 93 the problem almost disappears, You might be better off running the premium octane for a while to help reduce / remove any possible carbon on the pistons & head chambers. By the way my pump in my 02 had similar mileage on it when it started giving problems. Also these 3.0's seem very picky about plugs & wires, Your fine with the plugs you have just make sure your wires are in good condition & not arcing.

JP02XLT

 

[cbxer55]

I have a 98 3.0 Ranger with automatic, and have had this pinging problem for years. I have replaced everything, checked everything, it still happens. I also have to run 93 octane fuel, but in my case the pinging goes away with 93. If I run 91 it pings.

But to be fair mine has an aftermarket performance intake, exhaust, chip on the computer. So that may be a contributing factor.

As for not pinging when wet out. That would be true since in the good old days water injection was used to eliminate pinging. I have done it on vehicles in the past, and kits are still availabe today. They use vacuum and rpm sensors to vary the amount of water injected. You can also run a 50/50 mix of alcohol and water to get a bit of an increase in power. It is absolutely amazing what a small mist of water in the intake can do for eliminating ping. I am thinking of going that route myself since I expect fuel prices to rise over $3.00 a gallon due to the ever-increasing oil prices (almost $80.00 a barrel now). Oh yeah, turbo and super-charged vehicles use water injection to control ping.

Dry weather means more air, hence leaner, hence ping. Moisture in the air reduces oxygen content, replaced by the water. So mixture is slightly richer.

This is especially noticable on an air-cooled motorcycle. When out riding and you go past a farmers field where his sprinklers are running and the air is humid, all of the sudden you notice how much smoother it is running.

My problem as of right now, I have been out of work for 11 months. So the money to spend on a quality water injection kit just is not there.

 

[fourwheelford]

The one thing you could try is a gallon of e-85 in with your 93 octane, if you have it available in your area that is. My truck never pinged when I ran it like that and your mileage doesn't drop very much because its only a gallon. Its worth a shot though.

 

[oldfordman]

Forgot to mention- I do have a 180 thermostat. I also tried bypassing the intake manifold heater- no change in pinging. I hope it's not the fuel pump, those buggers are expensive! Any opinion on replacing just the pump and strainer (about $180 Airtex) versus replacing the whole assembly ($400-500)? Also, very little E85 around here in eastern PA. Closest station is about 40 miles away. Might be interesting to run a tank, but not a solution in my case.

 

[Earl43P]

Yeah, save the $ and do the pump and sock. Make sure the hose is fuel hose. Mine came with a section of hose that I used, it failed a few months later on the guy I sold that truck to. Get a new float, $8 at Ford. Pressure wash the top of the tank before you open it. Worth doing, even if all you do is just a good hosing off.

Have you driven it with the egr valve vacuum hose disconnected?

 

[Big Jim M]

You have posted a typical compression ping post. Pinging under light load when the timing is advanced to max is almost always carbon buildup.
Put a can of valve cleaner in at every tank and after 3 or so tanks the pinging should stop.
But first put the 195* thermostat back in there. You are confusing the computer with the wrong thermostat. The 180* doesn't gain you one damn thing, and it is possibly causing MORE carbon buildup. That 15* extra heat is needed by all the components Ford put in the engine.
Big JIm

 

[JP02XLT]

Did Ford design this 3.0 to ping? Changing the stat on a temporary basis to see if it improves his situation is a cheap solution compared to what he has already done. Also dumping cans of magic cleaner (Seafoam) etc usually is a waste after the first can, it also eats plugs. If you really want to clean & de-carb it the best he can without tearing into it. They make kits to clean that you add a pressurized can of cleaner to the fuel rail & run the motor on only the can contents. The engine generally gets very warm from the cylinders burning the cleaner / fuel, you can also count on doing a plug change afterwards. As for the price of the pumps you can generally get a walbro from e-bay for $60-75. Remove the bed to replace the pump its much easier.

JP02XLT

 

[triumphrider-1]

You have posted a typical compression ping post. Pinging under light load when the timing is advanced to max is almost always carbon buildup.
Put a can of valve cleaner in at every tank and after 3 or so tanks the pinging should stop.
But first put the 195* thermostat back in there. You are confusing the computer with the wrong thermostat. The 180* doesn't gain you one damn thing, and it is possibly causing MORE carbon buildup. That 15* extra heat is needed by all the components Ford put in the engine.
Big JIm

+1

 

[351rangerxxx]

You have posted a typical compression ping post. Pinging under light load when the timing is advanced to max is almost always carbon buildup.
Put a can of valve cleaner in at every tank and after 3 or so tanks the pinging should stop.
But first put the 195* thermostat back in there. You are confusing the computer with the wrong thermostat. The 180* doesn't gain you one damn thing, and it is possibly causing MORE carbon buildup. That 15* extra heat is needed by all the components Ford put in the engine.
Big JIm

+2

 

[cbxer55]

15 degrees is not enough to matter. Mine was pinging with the 195, and its pinging with the 180. So putting the 195 back in is not going to stop it. I've had the 180 in mine for near three years now, tossed the POS 195 in the trash back when and I'll never return to one.

 

[351rangerxxx]

but the engine is designed to run 200 degrees for proper operation so if you want to fix the pinging take it back to what it is design for and then we will continue to seek out what else is happening. now if your running a electric fan with a switcch for 205 degrees then go ahead and run a 180 if you tow. otherwise its a waste of money to run anything else

 

[oldfordman]

I will try going back to the 195 stat, but of all the things I have tried, going to a 180 made no difference, so I am not expecting it to change things when I go back. Regarding the electric fan- I still have the factory one, but will be going to an electric fan sometime in the future to help gas mileage. Even though they are viscous clutch fans, they still have a drag on the sytem, and above about 25-30 mph, you don't need a fan at all- I drove my other truck for a month with no fan at all, most of my driving is commuting, and as long as I did not sit for more than about 4-5 minutes, it never moved on the temp gauge. Not something I recommend except on a short trial basis as long as you keep an eye on the temp gauge.
I appreciate all the comments, but my original question remains- does anyone know what the different sensors are supposed to be putting out? Especially the MAF? Mine is less than 5 g/sec at idle, I have read somewhere about values about 10-19, but I don't know if those were load or no load. My concern is that I have a MAF calibrated for a different size engine (see original post) and my readings are low, even though it does respond. THANKS

 

[Big Jim M]

I have a MAF calibrated for a different size engine!

And I thought I had already heard it all! What the hell are you thinking?
Big JIm

 

[triumphrider-1]

I appreciate all the comments, but my original question remains- does anyone know what the different sensors are supposed to be putting out? Especially the MAF? Mine is less than 5 g/sec at idle, I have read somewhere about values about 10-19, but I don't know if those were load or no load. My concern is that I have a MAF calibrated for a different size engine (see original post) and my readings are low, even though it does respond. THANKS

Do you still have the original MAF? If so disconnect the battery for 15 minutes, clean and put the old one back on and see if that helps.

The MAF will respond, but whether its sending the correct value I can't help there.

I have a MAF calibrated for a different size engine!

And I thought I had already heard it all! What the hell are you thinking?
Big JIm

Be nice Jim, hes just trying to get help. He already told was he has a different one:

The MAF the auto store gave me is a F82F-12B579-EA, but I find on-line that it should be F67F-12B579-EA, at one site the F82F sensor is only listed for a 2.5 liter 4 cyl, but Cardone lists the same sensor for both. Are they the same?