Pilot bearing; truck creeping?

[Connorrexilius]

So my truck is getting very, very hard to put into gear. Its basically impossible to get into 1st at a stop. Of course mine and everyone else first assumption is a bad slave, but I can tell you two scenarios that makes me think otherwise:

Engine running, in 1st gear, clutch pushed in; truck kind of wants to creep, but won't really move. More like just enough to keep it from rolling back on a very slight slope.

Engine off, in 1st gear, clutch pushed in; I can easily roll the truck by pushing with my free foot that's hanging out the door.

This leads me to believe the resistance is from a bad pilot bearing. So MY QUESTION IS can a bad pilot bearing cause that much of a problem?

-1992 ranger 4.0 4x4 m5od
-installed a luk repset clutch 200 miles ago during engine rebuild
-drained and filled trans with amsoil synchromesh 2 days ago

 

[LILF00T]

Did you replace the pilot bushing when you did your clutch ?
I

Sent from my HTC Optical Implant® On AT&T

 

[RonD]

No probably not pilot bearing.

Air in the system is more likely.

Input shaft is maybe an inch wide where it contacts the flywheel, even if flywheel was spinning at 1,000rpms that limited contact area couldn't move or even put pressure at rear wheels.
And if bearing was seized you would "hear" about it
It could make it hard to stop input shaft from spinning when going from Neutral to 1st when stopped.

Clutch disc rubbing on flywheel pressure plate could cause what you describe, and that is much more common, air at the top of Master or air in the hose or slave.
Without full travel at the slave clutch disc will rub.

And just to get you by for now, shift into a higher gear when stopped, even OD(5th), then shift into 1st.
The higher gear gives you more leverage to slowdown and stop the input shaft, which is needed to get into 1st when rear wheels are stopped.

The push with the foot test really doesn't tell you much.
With engine running(650rpm) and in 1st gear with clutch in, gives rubbing clutch disc alot of leverage, 3.40:1 in 1st and 3.73:1 rear axle.

With engine off and clutch pedal in, even on level ground the weight of the truck gives it leverage over the 9" clutch disc.


If you unplug the Quick disconnect, that seals the master and hose, then push down on the clutch pedal, it should be rock hard, should not move at all, 0, none, nada.
If it goes in even slightly there is air at the top of it.


And to get you by for now, shift into a higher gear and then into 1st when stopped, the higher gear gives you more leverage to slowdown and stop the input shaft so you can get into 1st.

 

[Connorrexilius]

So quick update, yes I did replace the pilot bearing when I installed the motor. I also want to point out that I did not touch or remove the transmission or any part of the clutch hydraulics. I read on another thread where someone had similar problems and a few posts suggested it be the pilot bearing. I really just wanted to know if it could even remotely cause this kind of issue, I kind of doubted it. But I kind of leaned more towards it because it's a part I did mess with, since I didn't touch any of the hydraulics.

But here's the kicker, after 2 days of it acting up. I hop in this morning and everything was back to normal. I didn't do anything, but I really hope it was just working itself through some kind of fresh break in hiccup.

 

[gw33gp]

The pilot bearing can absolutely cause this problem but there are other things that can do it too.

I had a pilot bearing that gave similar symptoms to what you are experiencing. It started with being kind of hard to put in first and reverse gears. Then, I would get a little of the trying to move forward with the clutch disengaged with the transmission in gear. Sometimes the problem would go away. One evening on my way home from work while pulling up to a stop sign with the clutch disengaged, the truck suddenly surged forward and was difficult to stop. Each time I did this is would kind of surge forward and let up and the surge forward again.

I thought the clutch was going bad. I managed to get it home and the next day I pulled the transmission and clutch to find needles for the pilot bearing falling out. Apparently the needles, being very worn, were getting partially sideways and clamping down on the tip of the transmission input shaft, making it want to turn the input shaft.

There was some damage to the surface of the contact area of the input shaft. I stoned it smooth and checked for clearance. It was a little loose but I decided to go with it. After putting everything back together with only a new pilot bearing, everything worked perfectly. Even though I was told the pilot bearing is pre-lubed, I packed more in there to make sure it would not dry out again.

Unfortunately, it is difficult to diagnose the problem without taking everything apart. When you say you can put it in gear and push in on the clutch with engine off and easily push the truck, it sounds like the clutch, T.O. bearing, master and slave are working normally. That make the pilot bearing very suspect in my opinion. The problem is, it takes basically the same labor to replace the pilot bearing as is does to replace the clutch. It just doesn't cost as much in parts.

I forgot to add , check around the mount area of the master cylinder. I have heard of cracking that can cause deflection making the clutch not disengage all the way. Then again, your test with the engine off kind off eliminates this problem too.

 

[pjtoledo]

that's what my pilot bearing did.
hard to get into 1st when stopped or going slow, would sometimes "catch" and cause a small jerk, chirped sometimes.
try downshifting into 1st at about 12-15 mph, revs will be matched there.
inspect input shaft for gouges, smooth them and grease new bearing.

if you have good ears you can hear the clutch disk starting to drag. problem is you have to be under the truck!!!
put the rear on stands, rotate the driveshaft while somebody works the clutch. there should be some pedal travel at the bottom before you hear the disk starting to drag.