Oil pressure concern continued 2

[Johnnyboiranger22]

As you guys can tell from my other recent posts i was diagnosing a oil pressure needs fluctuating concern, long story short i got the oil pan off and i took the oil pick up tube and screen off and this is what i found there was bits and pieces of old sealant in it but not much(would this little bit of blockage cause that?, but oddly it looks like a new oil pump and tube was put on before i took owner ship of this ranger 2.3 1991 next to pickup tube is one I took off and 2.5 ranger just to compare. I took some pictures to have you guys take a look. My next question is should i just clean tube out or replace and should i replace oil pump? what else could cause the needle to fluctuate, bad wiring?

 

[RonD]

Oil pressure comes from "back pressure"
The Oil pump can pump more oil than the engine can use

So..........when the Main oil passage(where pressure sender is) is full and the oil is flowing out to bearings and valve train, all of it can't get out, so back pressure builds up in the Main passage, and that is oil pressure you would see.

Oil pressure goes up with RPMs because the oil pump pumps more oil but the bearings and valve train don't use much more oil, above 6psi oil pressure is fine for most engines.
General rule of thumb is 1psi per 100rpm up to 6,000rpm/60psi, above 6,000rpm oil pressure should not continue to go up that fast, above 70psi is too high and bearings can get "washed", not enough oil stays on the bearings, so they over heat and fail

Fluctuating oil pressure could be sender, or gauge since they are electrical
An actual pressure gauge with oil tube would tell that tale

Could be bearing or valve train has a leak, passing more oil that it should at a certain position, so back pressure changes.

Oil pump has a relief valve, ball and spring valve, it could be weak or defective, opening and closing causing more or less flow which would change back pressure.

Could even be "gunk" in the sender tube

No, I don't think the debris, I can see, in the pickup would cause any issues with oil pressure

 

[Johnnyboiranger22]

Oil pressure comes from "back pressure"
The Oil pump can pump more oil than the engine can use

So..........when the Main oil passage(where pressure sender is) is full and the oil is flowing out to bearings and valve train, all of it can't get out, so back pressure builds up in the Main passage, and that is oil pressure you would see.

Oil pressure goes up with RPMs because the oil pump pumps more oil but the bearings and valve train don't use much more oil, above 6psi oil pressure is fine for most engines.
General rule of thumb is 1psi per 100rpm up to 6,000rpm/60psi, above 6,000rpm oil pressure should not continue to go up that fast, above 70psi is too high and bearings can get "washed", not enough oil stays on the bearings, so they over heat and fail

Fluctuating oil pressure could be sender, or gauge since they are electrical
An actual pressure gauge with oil tube would tell that tale

Could be bearing or valve train has a leak, passing more oil that it should at a certain position, so back pressure changes.

Oil pump has a relief valve, ball and spring valve, it could be weak or defective, opening and closing causing more or less flow which would change back pressure.

Could even be "gunk" in the sender tube

No, I don't think the debris, I can see, in the pickup would cause any issues with oil pressure

I can take the sender out of the equation changed it twice already, I read PSI when cold start I think it was like 14-20PSI, I will double check Bearings but oil pump looks fine to me. It looks like someone changed it before me. Truck had 130k miles.

 

[tomw]

If your actual cold oil pressure was in the 14-20psi range, that would be considered low by me. I expect cold pressure with good oil & filter to be closer to 40-45-50psi. I also expect it to drop as the engine heats up.
Having 10-20psi at idle would be 'good' IMO.

You have it apart far enough that taking down the rod & main bearings and checking the clearance would be relatively easy. (this is if the pan is removed totally, so out of the way). You can also take down the pump, and remove the plate. Inspect the gears for wear(yeah, they do.) and the plate for gear 'grooves', and even the gear-to-housing clearance. It may be worn.
It takes a lot to plug up an intake screen. I have seen them long ago with sludge surrounding the pickup in the bottom of the pan and they still pumped. I have seen them where the screen was blocked with goo except for a small diameter where oil was still getting through. Yours are pristine in comparison.
I would remove the bearing caps, one at a time, and inspect the journal and the insert. Look closely at the inserts for evidence of wear. You can also use the wax thread clearance measuring tool to determine current clearance. Plastigage. It will be close enough to accurate to determine if your clearances are too large, at least on the crankshaft. FoMoCo in the past sold 'slightly undersize' inserts, as in .001" or .002" that were used along with a STD insert, or in pairs, to reduce excessive clearance. You could buy separate inserts, and mix and match to get the clearance back to tolerance.
The other 'loose' bearings would be the cam bearings, which can be checked by pulling the cam, and using a micrometer & expansion device(brain fade), or Plastigage. A sticky lifter could also flow a lot of oil.
Check also the pressure relief valve in the oil pump as mentioned above. If the ball has a groove, or is sticky in the bore, it may not reseat, and may be allowing a lot of the oil to blast out into the sump rather than circulate. You could replace the pump, especially if you find wear in the gears, housing, or end plate.
tom

 

[Johnnyboiranger22]

If your actual cold oil pressure was in the 14-20psi range, that would be considered low by me. I expect cold pressure with good oil & filter to be closer to 40-45-50psi. I also expect it to drop as the engine heats up.
Having 10-20psi at idle would be 'good' IMO.

You have it apart far enough that taking down the rod & main bearings and checking the clearance would be relatively easy. (this is if the pan is removed totally, so out of the way). You can also take down the pump, and remove the plate. Inspect the gears for wear(yeah, they do.) and the plate for gear 'grooves', and even the gear-to-housing clearance. It may be worn.
It takes a lot to plug up an intake screen. I have seen them long ago with sludge surrounding the pickup in the bottom of the pan and they still pumped. I have seen them where the screen was blocked with goo except for a small diameter where oil was still getting through. Yours are pristine in comparison.
I would remove the bearing caps, one at a time, and inspect the journal and the insert. Look closely at the inserts for evidence of wear. You can also use the wax thread clearance measuring tool to determine current clearance. Plastigage. It will be close enough to accurate to determine if your clearances are too large, at least on the crankshaft. FoMoCo in the past sold 'slightly undersize' inserts, as in .001" or .002" that were used along with a STD insert, or in pairs, to reduce excessive clearance. You could buy separate inserts, and mix and match to get the clearance back to tolerance.
The other 'loose' bearings would be the cam bearings, which can be checked by pulling the cam, and using a micrometer & expansion device(brain fade), or Plastigage. A sticky lifter could also flow a lot of oil.
Check also the pressure relief valve in the oil pump as mentioned above. If the ball has a groove, or is sticky in the bore, it may not reseat, and may be allowing a lot of the oil to blast out into the sump rather than circulate. You could replace the pump, especially if you find wear in the gears, housing, or end plate.
tom

Thanks everyone for replies, I think I'm going to pull engine and see what's going on or try to lift higher to get pan totally off, as far as the bearings I'm going to read up on that on how to replace because that's level of skill I dont think I posess yet lol, unless it's easy. I'm going to replace oil pump since I already have it opened and it relatively cheap, this is the correct one right?
Diamond Power DM127 Ford Ranger 2.3L 8 Spark Plugs Engine Oil Pump https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00GSWWZES/?tag=959media-20

Anyone can give me a easy way to do bearings?

 

[Johnnyboiranger22]

Here's what you guys are saying may be the problem, I was teaching myself how to do main bearings on a old 2.5 block, Im not very mechanically inclined but i can learn I've learned how to do the cylinder head and timing by myself without any prior knowledge, with that being said how hard would it be for m,e to do this with engine in truck if i can get pan out totally and a good guide because I know these play a big roll and i can potentially destroy the engine if i do this wrong, I need to learn how to MIC and do the Plastigage I don't know anything about those. Thanks in advance.

 

[tomw]

I doubt access is good enough to do anything to the bearings if the pan is not totally moved out of the way.
It is possible to remove and replace both rod and main bearing inserts without dropping the crankshaft nor removing the pistons. The rod and main cap fasteners are removed and the caps removed. The upper main inserts are 'rolled' out of position, one at a time, and the new rolled back in place. The old lower insert is removed and a new one installed. Bearings lubed and then caps put in place. Again, one at a time.
Rod caps can be removed, the connecing rod pushed up into the bore a bit to gain access to the upper insert, replaced, and pulled back down onto the rod journal. Lube and install the lower insert. Fasten in place. Do a final torque of the nuts & bolts per factory spec.
You will get oil dripped in your face. Wear protective lenses. Preventive swipes with paper towels or rags can reduce drippage at spots were oil is gathering. You will figure out where/how to look for coming droplets after a while lying on your back under an engine.
If you won't be starting the engine soon after re-assembly for any reason, use assembly lube on the bearings to insure they do not lose their lube while waiting.
tom

 

[Johnnyboiranger22]

I doubt access is good enough to do anything to the bearings if the pan is not totally moved out of the way.
It is possible to remove and replace both rod and main bearing inserts without dropping the crankshaft nor removing the pistons. The rod and main cap fasteners are removed and the caps removed. The upper main inserts are 'rolled' out of position, one at a time, and the new rolled back in place. The old lower insert is removed and a new one installed. Bearings lubed and then caps put in place. Again, one at a time.
Rod caps can be removed, the connecing rod pushed up into the bore a bit to gain access to the upper insert, replaced, and pulled back down onto the rod journal. Lube and install the lower insert. Fasten in place. Do a final torque of the nuts & bolts per factory spec.
You will get oil dripped in your face. Wear protective lenses. Preventive swipes with paper towels or rags can reduce drippage at spots were oil is gathering. You will figure out where/how to look for coming droplets after a while lying on your back under an engine.
If you won't be starting the engine soon after re-assembly for any reason, use assembly lube on the bearings to insure they do not lose their lube while waiting.
tom

Thanks Tom! I will look more into, so this should correct the oil pressure concerns i'm having? Do i need to address anything else while i'm in there? i'm going to do bearings and new oil pump while i'm in there. I just need to find where i can get an engine hoist for relatively cheap. Also do I lube back of the bearings or no? I saw some that said don't and some says do.

 

[Johnnyboiranger22]

Also what are the odds of the crankshaft being damaged? It looks intimidating but it actually looks like a simple job if you know what your doing. Also when removing bearing caps do i put back insert however they where positioned? Sorry for the amature questions but i don't have the knowledge yet.

 

[Johnnyboiranger22]

Also i never posted how to truck looks here you guys go

 

[tomw]

You can rent hoists if you don't want to purchase. HF has them also. Check with local autoparts stores to see if they can order them. Professional (vs chain retail) auto parts stores sell them.
Inserts are installed with lube on the surface that faces the crankshaft journals.

If you loosen the main cap bolts, it is easier to slide the upper insert out, and the replacement into place. Sometimes you need to use a 'nailhead' shaped thing, with the head of the nail pushing on the edge of the insert, and a bit of the nail poked into the oil hole in the journal. Rotate crankshaft to push the insert around and into place. The tabs on the end of the insert need to fit squarely and tightly into the notch in the block/cap, and must be set to be even with the surface of the cap/block.
Nice looking truck.

The crankshaft journals are damaged when they are grooved or rough in finish. The surface should be smooth, without bumps/valleys/scrape marks, almost chrome shiny when wiped with a clean dry rag. Do not leave them exposed to moisture w/o a slight coat of oil as they will rust over night.
tom

 

[Johnnyboiranger22]

You can rent hoists if you don't want to purchase. HF has them also. Check with local autoparts stores to see if they can order them. Professional (vs chain retail) auto parts stores sell them.
Inserts are installed with lube on the surface that faces the crankshaft journals.

If you loosen the main cap bolts, it is easier to slide the upper insert out, and the replacement into place. Sometimes you need to use a 'nailhead' shaped thing, with the head of the nail pushing on the edge of the insert, and a bit of the nail poked into the oil hole in the journal. Rotate crankshaft to push the insert around and into place. The tabs on the end of the insert need to fit squarely and tightly into the notch in the block/cap, and must be set to be even with the surface of the cap/block.
Nice looking truck.

The crankshaft journals are damaged when they are grooved or rough in finish. The surface should be smooth, without bumps/valleys/scrape marks, almost chrome shiny when wiped with a clean dry rag. Do not leave them exposed to moisture w/o a slight coat of oil as they will rust over night.
tom

Appreciate it tom, Borrowing a friends engine hoist or if my girl lets me splurge this paycheck I will by one myself. I need to get home and put cover back on I don't want that things rusting, I will tackle this thing Saturday and hopefully have it running Sunday and hopefully no more problems and then i can finally register it.Oil pump i already received will do that to. Also should i take on bearing down and buy same set or do these looks like they will be the same?
https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p...set-7291ma/3715531-P?searchTerm=main+bearings

https://www.enginepartsonly.com/199...MIqPbjt7nK3AIVVRuBCh1rUAYWEAQYASABEgKR7PD_BwE

 

[tomw]

Before purchasing replacements, you should insure that they will fit. If the installed bearings are STD size, no problem, but, they could already be undersize. Unless you remove one(of each, rod & main sets), you will not know the correct size. Undersized bearings(smaller diameter to make up for the reduced diameter of the machined crank journal) should be marked as such, i.e., .010 or .020.
If you have to order and have them shipped to store or delivered, you might as well take the time to shop. You may find closeout on Rock Auto that are less expensive. I have not looked at your links to do any comparison. The after market bearing producers also are suppliers to the factories as OEM, so most are very reputable.
tom

 

[Johnnyboiranger22]

Hey guys providing update just got done doing oil pump, do you guys think I should do the bearings? What are the odds of bearings wearing down on a ranger with only 130k no metal in oil from what I can see. I have them here but getting opinions first