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Need some info


Vice versa

I've seen that one before but I just realized that there is no outlet for the coolant into the head...can that be safely eiminated? I've always hated routing that hose around the back of the head...it always manages to get in the way of something, but I tolerated it because I thought it helped cool the intake resulting in slightly better performance...

Now I'm curious...

It could be used to heat it also to warm the air quicker? I would think the manifold would stay cooler without it?:dunno:
 
it's to heat the intake manifold to get the fuel to atomize better, cold fuel doesn't vaporize...
 
If anything, I would imagine that coolant circulating in the manifold makes it hotter than it would otherwise get, though that is purely speculation. Scots90ranger, you are correct about fuel atomization, and it probably is Ford's reasoning for flowing coolant in the manifold to start with. As for eliminating the coolant flow through the manifold, I hadn't thought about it and could only speculate on the effects it would have and if it would be safe. Coolant flow in the head is most definitely important, and to alter or disrupt it could have ill effects. Then again, it may be fine. When I bought my truck my coolant system was so gunked up that very little flow was possible through my manifold at all, and my head did not warp or crack. I may just try to call up somebody at Esslinger to see if they have an opinion on the matter. Either way, that damn hose really is annoying.
 
At start up

it is ideal but after it gets to operating temp it actually hurts performance cold air is denser which is why Ram Air systems and inter coolers on turbos are in use.:icon_thumby:
 
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try paeco performance,its a small company that offers a wide variety of performance parts including weber carbs.its been a while since i have done bussiness with them but i think they are still around
 
To the OP, this sounds like a good lead:
try paeco performance,its a small company that offers a wide variety of performance parts including weber carbs.its been a while since i have done bussiness with them but i think they are still around

Chilsam, ram air systems do not affect air intake temperature, and intercoolers only directly affect intake air temperature before it enters the throttle body. In the preceding discussions, I was referring mostly to the temperature of the intake manifold itself, and the effect it has on intake air temperature. Heat is conducted into the manifold from the head, and convected into the manifold through the hot air present in the engine bay. Drive any car in stop and go traffic and put your hand on the intake manifold. Regardless of whether the engine is air or water cooled, the manifold has coolant circulated through it or not, or the engine is boosted or naturally aspirated, the manifold will be significantly hotter than ambient air, and most often too hot for the average human to touch for any extended period of time without significant discomfort.

You are 100% correct, Chilsam, in stating that air becomes less dense with heat, thus reducing it's potential for making power. The sole purpose of Ram air, however, is to accept air from an area where pressure is higher than atmospheric conditions, creating a slight supercharging effect. Your average intercooler, including all intercoolers that I know of on stock production turbo and/or supercharged cars is air to air, meaning that they will never be able to reduce the temperature of the air to less than ambient air temperature. This means that any air to air intercooler can only negate the heating effects on the intake air temperature of a turbo or supercharger. It has only an indirect effect on the heat absorbed into the intake air charge from the intake manifold.

There are ways to cool the intake air charge below ambient air temperature, but they require a cold medium to absorb heat, which must be somehow replenished, be it ice, water/alcohol injection, or otherwise. Such technologies can, however, reduce air intake charge temperature vastly, even on a naturally aspirated engine. Hell, a carburetor has something of a cooling effect, just not enough to significantly cool a big chunk of cast aluminum containing hot coolant and being constantly heated by your engine. Bottom line is, your intake manifold gets hot, regardless of design or function, and the heat transfers into the air entering your engine.

The main question now is, can we completely eliminate the flow of coolant through the intake manifold of a 2.3 or 2.0, without adversely affecting the functionality of the cooling system.

If this post does not make sense in any way, is irrelevant to any/all preceding discussion, and/or is just too long, I hereby direct all liability to Latrobe Brewing Co., St. Louis, Mo.
 
LOL...made perfect sense to me...but I think I want to try some of that beer...:)

The intake on mine has a smaller hose size (think it's 3/8" while the heater core gets 5/5) and I'm sure the coolant actually would flow through the head without the intake connection...just a matter of how it would affect the engine under normal driving (as opposed to short term race conditions...although that is not to say that racing doesn't actually cause more of a heat issue).

Now that I think about it, I don't recall seeing a manifold coolant line on fuel injected systems...and I don't have any pics handy to assure myself of it. The intake shown in the image looks like it was designed purely for a carb application so at some point either a modified intake was developed for specific applications (like racing or boating) or some of the engines were made without the cooling line. I don't know.
 
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I have a Crazy Ray's run (our local you-pull) planned this weekend or early next week depending on the weather. Unfortunately, I need to pull myself a transmission. I'm sure there will be some EFI 2.3's I can lay an eyeball on while I'm there. I'll see what I can see on coolant routing, and maybe even pull an intake manifold, if for no other reason than to see if it has coolant passages. As for the beer, it's just Rolling Rock, cheaper than Bud and tastes better IMO.
 
It does

Im looking at one as I write this,there is a passage in between the 2 middle intake ports the temp sensor 4 the comp screws into it and the fitting on the bottom that routes the coolant back around the head into the heater hose screws into the same passage.As for the other info KNOWLEDGE IS ALWAYS A GOOD THING!:icon_idea:
 
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The intake on mine has a smaller hose size (think it's 3/8" while the heater core gets 5/5) and I'm sure the coolant actually would flow through the head without the intake connection...just a matter of how it would affect the engine under normal driving (as opposed to short term race conditions...although that is not to say that racing doesn't actually cause more of a heat issue).

Now that I think about it, I don't recall seeing a manifold coolant line on fuel injected systems...and I don't have any pics handy to assure myself of it. The intake shown in the image looks like it was designed purely for a carb application so at some point either a modified intake was developed for specific applications (like racing or boating) or some of the engines were made without the cooling line. I don't know.

As far as I know, the intake was designed for a 350 Holley. It is definitely made for a carburetor. They have a manifold for their aluminum head, which is a completely different animal from the stocker, and a manifold for the iron head. That is a very good point about the difference in size between the hose going from the head to the heater and the one coming from the manifold. There would still be coolant flow present in the head without flow in the manifold, but my question would be if there is a possibility of getting a hotspot or something and cracking a head. I just don't know near enough about these things to make a conclusion on this.

So Chilsam, there is only one water jacket in the manifold, and it is in the middle? That could make a manifold swap interesting, even if you do not intend to block off the coolant passages. Either way though, the coolant flow is still present in the manifold, and the small hose is there as well, right?

I guess when it comes down to it, Esslinger makes the manifold with no provisions for coolant flow, so I think they will know best what conditions it can be used in. I am going to talk to them next week. I am really curious what they will say about this. I have what I want for a manifold, but am very interested in ridding myself of that hose, as are some others, I'm sure. There is a chance as well that some 2.3 mustang guys would have discussed this, and that would be floating around out there on another forum somewhere. If the weather does what it is supposed to, I will have some time to search around a little in coming days.
 
I will dig around also...now I'm interested...I'd been wanting to change my intake for a long time and even considered FI...but I do like my intake other than that hose...it's an Offy type (similar to the Offenhauser intake that Esslinger used to offer) and I think it is a bolt-on for a 350 carb...which I would love to have...but haven't had the funds to do anything about it...

I've got a few other projects on the go right now that are kind of priorities but I will see what I can find out over the weekend...
 
I hear you on the other projects. Seems I'm good at collecting old junk and taking things apart, but kind of slow at finishing and reassembling things. I love the Holley 350 I have, but I wish Edelbrock had something smaller than a 500, I would buy from them instead.
 
Yep

As far as I know, the intake was designed for a 350 Holley. It is definitely made for a carburetor. They have a manifold for their aluminum head, which is a completely different animal from the stocker, and a manifold for the iron head. That is a very good point about the difference in size between the hose going from the head to the heater and the one coming from the manifold. There would still be coolant flow present in the head without flow in the manifold, but my question would be if there is a possibility of getting a hotspot or something and cracking a head. I just don't know near enough about these things to make a conclusion on this.

So Chilsam, there is only one water jacket in the manifold, and it is in the middle? That could make a manifold swap interesting, even if you do not intend to block off the coolant passages. Either way though, the coolant flow is still present in the manifold, and the small hose is there as well, right?

I guess when it comes down to it, Esslinger makes the manifold with no provisions for coolant flow, so I think they will know best what conditions it can be used in. I am going to talk to them next week. I am really curious what they will say about this. I have what I want for a manifold, but am very interested in ridding myself of that hose, as are some others, I'm sure. There is a chance as well that some 2.3 mustang guys would have discussed this, and that would be floating around out there on another forum somewhere. If the weather does what it is supposed to, I will have some time to search around a little in coming days.

You are correct sir 1 passage,uno,singular :D right in the middle with the brass fitting on the lower back side.
 
You are correct sir 1 passage,uno,singular :D right in the middle with the brass fitting on the lower back side.

That would be an FI intake? From what year?

Someone had advised me that the 86 FI intake is the best one to use for a carb adaptor with the Holley 350...someone makes an adaptor that fits exactly for that application...I think I priced it out a few years ago and was looking at about $600 for new parts...but that was just about the time I found the carb and intake that I have now from the 78 Mustang II...so I went with the less expensive option.
 
86-87??

I THINK? It's one of those 2 for sure,I got to thinking my son has a complete 85 SVO turbo 2.3 and T5 tranny I looked at the intake it has the runners "INLINE" as compared to being "BOXED" and the comp sensor and brass fitting are in the same place.:icon_welder:
 
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