mystery metal

[Ranger Rod]

Damn i wish i started from the bottom first and had seen the bearing damage, then i would not have spent the coin on doing the heads, i feel commited now. I was fooled because there was no bottom end knock but top end rattle and I thought if I were to blow out the oil channel to remove what I thought to be miracle fix in a can from pick-up screen I should be fine. whoed-a-thunk it without a bottom end knock?

 

[Psychopete]

Damn i wish i started from the bottom first and had seen the bearing damage, then i would not have spent the coin on doing the heads, i feel commited now. I was fooled because there was no bottom end knock but top end rattle and I thought if I were to blow out the oil channel to remove what I thought to be miracle fix in a can from pick-up screen I should be fine. whoed-a-thunk it without a bottom end knock?

Who knows what it is for sure, there would be a lot of clearance if that were the case. If the engine is still in the truck, it's going to be a lot harder to figure out exactly where it came from. How easily can you see the cam bearings? I am not exactly sure what that is... (pic)

Pete

 

[Ranger Rod]

can't see cam bearings now the top end is together, i dont even have a tree to hang a block and tackle from to pull it., am laid off with this damn economy and struggling for pennies to boot.

 

[Ranger Rod]

that looks like a rod bearing , you never know what they will look like when they come out , for example

mine:

did this meltdown damage the crankshaft?

 

[Ranger Rod]

Who knows what it is for sure, there would be a lot of clearance if that were the case. If the engine is still in the truck, it's going to be a lot harder to figure out exactly where it came from. How easily can you see the cam bearings? I am not exactly sure what that is... (pic)

Pete

Morning...

when you say clearence you are refering to the slack left in the absents of a rod bearing i presume, and if so then i would be able to physically move the the rod about the crankshaft by wriggling with my hand or would it take conciderably more force to see any slack there? I do feel slight side to side motion at bearing / shaft contact points but i asume this is a normal condition. If what I have said in this post is consistant then it is pointless to remove rod caps but should inspect mains to be sure as there logically would be no play with the shaft being the other three mains (and combined piston rods) are holding the shaft firm.

I see now what was meant by scratching the shaft with rod bolts, or should i say "studs" on the rods which are secured by nuts. It is the mains that are secured with "bolts" and i had a picture in my head that it was bolts through and through for some reason.

 

[Psychopete]

Yes, mains have bolts that go through.

If that were a rod bearing, one would think you have considerable amount of clearance between the rod and the crank. That's a significant amount of metal between there. Enough to cause shavings.

It looked like it was round, possibly one piece, not very big in diameter, you you stated it had a top end noise; this is why I asked about the cam bearings.

And I would imagine that melt down did indeed damage the crank. I knew a guy who replaced a cam bearing (he could tell which one is was because it had so much play moving by hand) in a 3.0L Taurus. Only replaced the cam bearing (that was still in the rod), and the engine ultimately failed 2 days later with the same knock returning. They say that if you run your finger nail down a journal, and it gets caught on anything / ridges / scratches, it needs turned. There's a lot of force and motion going on, the slightest inconsistentancy between a journal and a bearing will wreak havoc. Very important to keep everything as clean as you possibly can.

Pete

 

[Ranger Rod]

This morning looked with a light on the subject and could see no signs of damage below, not even a nick or scratch to indicate main or rod.

The more i stare at this debis the more i am inclined to think cam bearing too, with that little tonge and the hole in the middle resembling an oil feed, the more that makes sence even if it is rather large to travel the distance to the oil pan. I am now checking posting for cam bearing info.

 

[shadetree]

It's not a rod bearing. Rod bearings come in halves, and do not have the tang like the one in the pix. It is a cam bearing.shady

 

[Ranger Rod]

Affirm to halves indeed, and the same for main bearings?? Not working this field every day i thought maybe things changed as they so often do, but this kit definatly shows dark metal halves.

 

[Capt Jay]

Can anyone identify this piece of space junk found in my 1995 3.0 vulcan before I button up the bottom end again???

The piece of metal is a penny.

with this damn economy and struggling for pennies.

There's one right there^.

Sorry, had to do it. It's not a rod bearing. I have to think cam bearing also. Sorry. Those aren't fun. A rod bearing is much easier.

 

[Psychopete]

Affirm to halves indeed, and the same for main bearings??

Yes, mains are in halves as well.

If it is a cam bearing, cost wise what it would take to fix with everything considered, a replacement junk yard engine would probably be the cheapest route. It's likely you'll run into other things that will need replaced, cost of gaskets, probably some machine work while it's apart, etc. But with a limited budget, I'd feel bad about recommending anything in general. A junk yard engine is cheap, but it can be kind of a crap shoot, but fixing what you have could be to. I suspect there could possibly be another underlying problem that caused the engine to spin a cam bearing. But verify that is absolutely the problem for sure.

Take my comments above with a grain of salt. A lot of people will tell you it couldn't cost much to fix, I am not a mechanic (or automotive tech ), and am in the same boat as you, just an average person working on something. From what I see that it would cost me to do, in such a fashion that I would be comfortable doing, it would cost more than a used engine in a junk yard in the long run once said and done. IMO.

Pete

 

[Ranger Rod]

Spent the day going from one auto supply shop to anouther to try and have a look at a cam bearing to verify, but nobody stocks them and then they say they can't be ordered but, I can buy / order a cam although they tell me i must get lifters included for upwards of $900.00 , what a bloody scam.

Next,,, I guess I should leave the new pan and gasket off for now (in case i have to return them to supplyer), drop the engine back onto the mounts, tear the top end off again and get at the cam assembly to see the actual story there. Maybe if the cam and bearing seat in the block are still ok (being bearing is hopefully not as tough as iron block or cam material), and there is anouther bearing still in tact, I may be able to go to a bearing supply company and match something up. Unless someone has a better plan?

The intake gaskets have not been heated up as yet since doing the heads and they should be reusable saving that cost at least. When looking at a wrecker motor I persoanally tend to think that there is a reason it is in the "junk yard" to begin with. Unless you are personally looking at a writen off viehicle first hand and can see the milage on the speedo it seems a tad to risky don't it.

I believe the reason for the spun bearing is,,, liquid quickly seaping from cracked head into oil system while water jacket under extreme preasure due to clogged rad resulting of so called miracle crack sealent (what a fool I am to even think of using that crap), which inturn removed viscosity, which caused shavings, which blocked oil pick-up screen, which spun bearing, all progressivly within a few short miniutes of running time.

 

[Ranger Rod]

The piece of metal is a penny.


There's one right there^.

Sorry, had to do it. It's not a rod bearing. I have to think cam bearing also. Sorry. Those aren't fun. A rod bearing is much easier.

And the Boobie Prize goes to Capt Jay for his priceless wit. {;o)

 

[exbass94]

Spent the day going from one auto supply shop to anouther to try and have a look at a cam bearing to verify, but nobody stocks them and then they say they can't be ordered but, I can buy / order a cam although they tell me i must get lifters included for upwards of $900.00 , what a bloody scam.

Not true, I just found a set of cam bearings on Napa's website within 20 seconds. The part number is SEP1843M. The online price is $31.49.
http://www.napaonline.com/MasterPages/NOLMaster.aspx?PageId=470&LineCode=SEP&PartNumber=1843M&Description=Camshaft+Bearing+Set

And $900 for a camshaft and lifters is ridiculous. Once again, Napa website shows a camshaft for $164, and lifters for $13.49 each. 12 lifters + 1 camshaft = $325.88 plus tax.

 

[Ranger Rod]

Not true, I just found a set of cam bearings on Napa's website within 20 seconds. The part number is SEP1843M. The online price is $31.49.
http://www.napaonline.com/MasterPages/NOLMaster.aspx?PageId=470&LineCode=SEP&PartNumber=1843M&Description=Camshaft+Bearing+Set

And $900 for a camshaft and lifters is ridiculous. Once again, Napa website shows a camshaft for $164, and lifters for $13.49 each. 12 lifters + 1 camshaft = $325.88 plus tax.

I figured they were scamming me, just cause "public" and am not a their regular shop customer eh.

Can't get your item / part# to work at http://www.napacanada.com/ but it is a relieve to know the truth of the matter, thanks!