motor mounts and oil pans

[jaymegriffiths]

im gonna buy an 84 cougar for my 302 swap. I understand i need a rear sump oil pan, and the pickup tube that accompanies it. what vehicles would have this?
also, i've been told mustang motor mounts bolt right in, but do cougar ones?

 

[Teddyzee]

Those Cougar mounts are not the same part # as '86-'95 Mustang etc., but they may work. And you want the "dual sump" pan, the raised center part clears your crossmember.

 

[baddad457]

The 84 Cougar has the correct pan. ALL Ford/Lincoln & Merc cars after 1979 had the dual sump fox pan with the 5.0. Except for the 1980 Granada/Monarch/Versailles.

 

[jaymegriffiths]

ok, if i want the dual sump do i need dual oil pumps? and dual pickup tubes? is there vehicles that came equipped with this or is it something i can order? Im not exactly an experienced engine builder but im learnin quick. also could someone explain to me what counterbalances are, where they go etc?
on THIS site they mention weighing the pistons, but i dont know what kind of scale they are using, or how i would do this... also, how do i know if a machine shop is doing what they should or not? like bolting down the torque plate shown HERE...
is this a common practice or is it something i can ask them too do?
also, is there any articles anyone knows of about choosing lift and duration of your cam, and what valve clearances will be, or anything else useful?
AND should i be using aluminum pistons, or just buy a kit from summit or something. i'd like to get an engine started before winter so i dont have to dig through 5 feet of snow to get at an oil pan or something... i want the engine ready for next spring...
ill return with questions soon, thanks to those who answered i appreciate it

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

You just need a foxbody Mustang dual sump pan and the pickup to go with it. It has two sumps, but really only the back one counts, it is where the oil is measured from and where the oil pump draws from.

They are not too hard to find, here is the first one I got so you know what you are looking for:

 

[jaymegriffiths]

http://therangerstation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=244

Pete

i've read this 6 times now. has helped a bit but i find people who have done it offer more accurate info. i've heard of a rear sump being used. couldn't remember where so not sure if it was right..

 

[baddad457]

ok, if i want the dual sump do i need dual oil pumps? and dual pickup tubes? is there vehicles that came equipped with this or is it something i can order? Im not exactly an experienced engine builder but im learnin quick. also could someone explain to me what counterbalances are, where they go etc?
on THIS site they mention weighing the pistons, but i dont know what kind of scale they are using, or how i would do this... also, how do i know if a machine shop is doing what they should or not? like bolting down the torque plate shown HERE...
is this a common practice or is it something i can ask them too do?
also, is there any articles anyone knows of about choosing lift and duration of your cam, and what valve clearances will be, or anything else useful?
AND should i be using aluminum pistons, or just buy a kit from summit or something. i'd like to get an engine started before winter so i dont have to dig through 5 feet of snow to get at an oil pan or something... i want the engine ready for next spring...
ill return with questions soon, thanks to those who answered i appreciate it

It's called a dual sump, but it's really not. The front "sump" is there to provide room for the oil pump, which draws oil from the rear sump. The oil that collects in the front, overflows during operation over the hill into the rear sump. As for weighing pistons, that's not necessary in 99.99% of applications. Replacement pistons are close enough in weight to the originals to have minimal effect on the engine's dynamic balance. If you want to have the whole assembly balanced, the machinist who will do this will weigh everything and remove or add weight to achieve balance in the rpm range you'll run it at. The counterweights in the engine are part of the crankshaft, these are the large rough metal parts opposite the crank journals ( the smooth areas where the rods are bolted to. )

 

[COPPERHEAD85]

i've read this 6 times now. has helped a bit but i find people who have done it offer more accurate info. i've heard of a rear sump being used. couldn't remember where so not sure if it was right..

Pete has been there done it,probably has the T-shirt.
Dual sump is the way to go unless you want to hack up the cross member.
I thought I had a better pic but I dont.I'll see if I can get some better ones if you need them.

 

[allnpt0]

The Cougar has the oil pan, oil pump and pick-up you want. You have everything needed as far as that goes.

Pete

 

[jaymegriffiths]

The Cougar has the oil pan, oil pump and pick-up you want. You have everything needed as far as that goes.

Pete

cool. i've read there were blocks that had the dipstick as part of the block hopefully this isn't the case, in case i dont wanna use this block. i like the idea of a roller but i'll work with what i can get. i'm goin carbed thats the only SURE thing
thanks for the pic i know what dual sumps look like, just haven't seen one cracked open...

 

[jaymegriffiths]

It's called a dual sump, but it's really not. The front "sump" is there to provide room for the oil pump, which draws oil from the rear sump. The oil that collects in the front, overflows during operation over the hill into the rear sump. As for weighing pistons, that's not necessary in 99.99% of applications. Replacement pistons are close enough in weight to the originals to have minimal effect on the engine's dynamic balance. If you want to have the whole assembly balanced, the machinist who will do this will weigh everything and remove or add weight to achieve balance in the rpm range you'll run it at. The counterweights in the engine are part of the crankshaft, these are the large rough metal parts opposite the crank journals ( the smooth areas where the rods are bolted to. )

ok i'll have a talk with the machinist he's a good friend and a great guy, just never seen him work, and i've seen my dad work an now i know not to overlook peoples work

 

[baddad457]

cool. i've read there were blocks that had the dipstick as part of the block hopefully this isn't the case, in case i dont wanna use this block. i like the idea of a roller but i'll work with what i can get. i'm goin carbed thats the only SURE thing
thanks for the pic i know what dual sumps look like, just haven't seen one cracked open...

Actually the block/pan combo where the dipstick is in the pan is the rare beast. Ford only used that setup for a couple years (79 to around 81-82) All later 5.0 blocks had the dipstick in the block. The pan with the stick can be sourced easier by buying one at the parts house. You'll be hard pressed to find these in the junkyard. I spent a whole day looking for one without success back when I was going to swap in a pre roller 302 in my Ranger.

 

[dangerranger83]

Now you just need to get the Cougar engine, from the looks of it, it has everything you need. When I had my 74 Maverick, it's origianal engine had the sump in the middle. Well before it was given to me my Aunt drove the engine and tranny litteraly to death and had to put another in it. Well the engine that was put in was the same only it had a rear sump. No problem but the dip stick tube was in the block so it never told correctly one the new engine got the middle sump pan put on it. I ddi care though, I cut the dip stick till it fit in the slot. Next year though it will be going into a demolition derby, mini class aka a tank vs. toys, my brother in law bought it form me just for that.

 

[baddad457]

No matter what you remember, a rear sump pan doesn't fit in a Maverick. There's something called the steering linkage there that prevents that. Or you could if you left the linkage out, but then it would be a bitch to steer the car out of the driveway.

 

[dangerranger83]

We put the middle sump oil pan onto the the rear sump oil pan engine along with the oil pump and pick-up from the middle sump. Trust me I remember it, the car ran and drive. Also had a C5 tranny that replaced the blown up C4. It was a tight fit but it worked with drive shaft mods. It had a 200 straight 6 in it before and 200 striaght 6 put in it after words. The only differnce was we had to use the C5 tranny because it wass the only one that would bolt up to the replacement engine, which came out of an 84 car or truck, the person we got it from never told us.