More + camber?

[Denisefwd93]

94 extended cab 4 wheel drive 4.0. while we have the front wheels off because we're doing a complete refit of the brakes, it was pointed out to me, even though I already knew it. The inside of the very new tires are getting cupped and starting to wear.

Jackstands are under the swing arms so the load is on the springs.
I put a level against the rotors and they both read a slight positive camber.

The tires on this 94, (I'll get the actual size) are pretty big tires at least in my way of thinking. So until I can afford to take it in for a real alignment, it seems some more camber is easy enough to do, I actually showed my friend Hank how to do it lol, Guessing the bigger tires cause more outboard load on the swing arms, and that makes the vehicle squat more?

Pictures coming soon, it's raining tonight

 

[Curious Hound]

I don't think tire size would affect camber. It's more a combination of the weight of the truck and the characteristics of your springs. More weight brings the front down and pivots the axle beams up causing more pressure on the inner edge of the tire, whatever size it is. You can adjust the camber by turning the adjustment bushings. But that also adjusts the caster, which I believe is more critical. Better fixes for camber are spacers under the springs or springs rated for more weight.

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[Denisefwd93]

I don't think tire size would affect camber. It's more a combination of the weight of the truck and the characteristics of your springs. More weight brings the front down and pivots the axle beams up causing more pressure on the inner edge of the tire, whatever size it is. You can adjust the camber by turning the adjustment bushings. But that also adjusts the caster, which I believe is more critical. Better fixes for camber are spacers under the springs or springs rated for more weight.

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Still raining... Anyhow these tires are pretty big and they are definitely wearing on the inside even though they are still practically new, so I need to do something to save these tires even though I'm going to rotate them to the back.. it's so very easy to turn the camber bushings and way way easier then putting spacers under the springs.

 

[Curious Hound]

I have the same issue now that I've put some miles on my new car Skyjacker springs and things have settled in. I have some aluminum discs that I plan to make into spacers. But building my shop is taking precedence right now.

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[Denisefwd93]

Still raining... Here's what I have one side it's definitely different from the other but they both have positive camber. I'll get the truck leveled out during the week and see if we can determine how much each one is tilted the right side doesn't seem to be showing any inside tire wear, at least is not as much as the one on the left.

Right side, good

left side, bad

Notice the top snap rings are missing, looks like a unfinished ball joint job lol. I can't help but notice the little things because I'm always detail-oriented with building and restoration of old boats,

 

[Curious Hound]

Have you read through the tech articles about ttb geometry and alignment? Good how-to on aligning it yourself. Very good explanation about what happens and why.

Especially if you have some rainy day time for reading. [emoji846]

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[Denisefwd93]

Have you read through the tech articles about ttb geometry and alignment? Good how-to on aligning it yourself. Very good explanation about what happens and why.

Especially if you have some rainy day time for reading. [emoji846]

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Sure did! it's how we were able to the front end of my 93. set the bushings and the front tires are not showing any signs of cupping or -+ camber

It's really quite easy to get them close. I was just wondering it larger tires make a difference.. reading on that I seems they can require different settings.

 

[gw33gp]

I don't think tire size would affect camber. It's more a combination of the weight of the truck and the characteristics of your springs. More weight brings the front down and pivots the axle beams up causing more pressure on the inner edge of the tire, whatever size it is. You can adjust the camber by turning the adjustment bushings. But that also adjusts the caster, which I believe is more critical. Better fixes for camber are spacers under the springs or springs rated for more weight.

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You are right that tire size should not affect camber. However, if different wheels, that have a different offset, are used with the larger tires it can affect camber.

 

[Curious Hound]

You are right that tire size should not affect camber. However, if different wheels, that have a different offset, are used with the larger tires it can affect camber.

That makes sense. Wheel offset could increase or decrease how much "lever arm" extends past the springs, thereby changing how much spring force is needed to bear the vehicle weight against that lever arm (axle beam/wheel combination).


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[Denisefwd93]

Yes, especially on the ttb, the swing arms act as levers against the load of the truck so, if you use a wider tires, more offset, or wheel spacers, it's going to change the load and thereby change the camber that should 0 or slightly positive according to all the stuff I read, and it's still raining

That makes sense. Wheel offset could increase or decrease how much "lever arm" extends past the springs, thereby changing how much spring force is needed to bear the vehicle weight against that lever arm (axle beam/wheel combination).


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[Denisefwd93]

Decided on the K.I.S.S. approach. Turned the camber bushing to the same angle as the one on the passenger side both rotors are now a half a bubble positive which I think we did on my other truck and it worked out fine,

My only question is, should the slots mirror each other or be opposite and locations right to left? Yes I know it affects Caster a little bit and also affects toe in.

 

[Curious Hound]

I wouldn't be overly concerned with comparing bushing orientation between opposite sides. There could be differences in other parts that require different settings. Mounting holes for brackets and things could be slightly off, something could be bent or worn, etc. The important thing is getting the alignment measurements where they need to be for safe driveability and minimal wear.

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[Denisefwd93]

I'm actually quite surprised there's almost no looseness in this front end, obviously the ball joints have been done.

I wouldn't be overly concerned with comparing bushing orientation between opposite sides. There could be differences in other parts that require different settings. Mounting holes for brackets and things could be slightly off, something could be bent or worn, etc. The important thing is getting the alignment measurements where they need to be for safe driveability and minimal wear.

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[Denisefwd93]

Well to wrap up this thread. We had to turn the camber bushing with a maximum amount of camber to even get the left side slightly over positive. I'm pretty sure the springs are sagged.
I don't think the traction beam is bent. So I guess a 1.5 - 2 inch lift or new Springs are in order at some point!