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MAF mod interesting tidbit...(long!)


bob, try this:

put a drinking straw into your both and try to breath through it. now, remove the straw and breath through your open mouth. the larger "intake" of your mouth allows you to ingest more air faster.

IF the MAF was the choke point of the engine, enlarging it would increase VE.

Haha, I don't think it gets much simpler than that. But, if the factory MAF flows enough for the engine, than obviously there will not be an increase in power if you open it up. But, in the event that the MAF is a restriction or "choke" point, then it would only make sense to open it up.
 
bob, try this:

put a drinking straw into your both and try to breath through it. now, remove the straw and breath through your open mouth. the larger "intake" of your mouth allows you to ingest more air faster.

IF the MAF was the choke point of the engine, enlarging it would increase VE.

Since the intake (and MAF sensor) aren't the limiting factor in the amount of air entering the engine, you could put a sewer pipe on in place of the intake, and you wouldn't get any more air!! Now, one thing the sewer pipe would do is decrease the velocity of the air flow, which would screw up the calibration of the MAF sensor!!

In the straw analogy, the straw would be the limiting factor in the amount of air you can ingest.....not the same thing!!
 
Haha, I don't think it gets much simpler than that. But, if the factory MAF flows enough for the engine, than obviously there will not be an increase in power if you open it up. But, in the event that the MAF is a restriction or "choke" point, then it would only make sense to open it up.


thats the problem...these days...04 and up definatly engines are tuned well.


but factory is not always best at anything...but its acceptable for everything:icon_thumby:.




seems some people dont understand that.:dunno:
 
Since the intake (and MAF sensor) aren't the limiting factor in the amount of air entering the engine, you could put a sewer pipe on in place of the intake, and you wouldn't get any more air!! Now, one thing the sewer pipe would do is decrease the velocity of the air flow, which would screw up the calibration of the MAF sensor!!

In the straw analogy, the straw would be the limiting factor in the amount of air you can ingest.....not the same thing!!



not always true.


einstien eh????
 
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well lets look at it like this from a carburetic point of view, wicked is right on the money here w/ the fi system, but lets change it up a hair. lets say the maf is the venturi in the carb, and the inlet and outlet are the larger ends of the carb. (single barrel btw) when air is sucked thru the small end (venturi) it increases velocity causing a pressure drop in the larger pipe, making vacuum. now since we arent sucking in fuel were moving air this creates turbulence, which can also throw off an maf sensor reading, thats why the pipe on both sides of the maf for a certain length must be the same diameter and it must be placed away from bends since they cause pressure drop as well. by increasing the size of the maf to match the size of the throttlebody and place it in straightline plumbing w/ approx 8 inches of straight pipe on either side well have a proper reading and full flow all the way to the throttlebody. a smaller maf and larger throttle body w/ different sized plumbing will throw off the reading and make the motor act funny (stumble at sudden acceleration/rough idle) or worse throw the fuel mix off entirely making tuning a real PITA. this is important to know for me since ill be installing a turbo and need the latger throttlebody/maf to make my pressures even cuz boosting at dif pressures will def throw a maf reading skrewy. sizing of injectors does have to do w/ flow and amount of air coming in, but w/o a proper maf reading we will never know how much air is actually coming into the system and cannot tune it properly much less get the right sized injector to feed the fuel to the cylinder at the exact time/proportion. the only other option is to dummy down to an air table and id rather have real time numbers than guesstimates. you dont want to tune your exhaust and fuel reading w/o proper exhuast gas readings, why would you want to tune the engine w/o proper air flow readings? makem sense?
 
I think people often forget what modifying is like when talking about certain tweaks on this forum. Intake and exhaust systems may not do much alone but if you're building up and going forced induction then big intake piping and an open 3" dual exhaust is pretty much necessary.
 
well once again you make a great point.


and the variable intake systems are tuned pretty well for specific componants.


but a 3.0 ranger isnt one of them...or a stock 5.0.


looking at the posts i question as a whole is hystericle:icon_rofl:
 
:icon_rofl:i am sorry...i just read some of this shit again:icon_rofl::icon_rofl:




i got some pm's on another topic and its all falling together now:icon_rofl::icon_rofl::icon_rofl::icon_rofl::icon_rofl:
 
well laugh all you want i dont have a problem w/ that, i just seen something interesting and figured i would run it by everybody and see what they thought.
 
well laugh all you want i dont have a problem w/ that, i just seen something interesting and figured i would run it by everybody and see what they thought.


no i am not laughing at you....your 100 percent right on it.



having built 100 percent plus ve engines with a carb intake application that are naturally asperated i am more then aware of potentials.


i applaude your comments they are excellent.
 
well thanx, been tuning carbureted sportbikes a lil bit and the atv industry is still very much carbureted so i know a good bit on that subject. ive done some fi bikes and the atv/utv market is slowly shifting to fi so im trying to learn as much as possible to stay on top of things. my trk will be the first automotive application i attempt, and i want to do it right the first time w/ little interference and as much knowledge as possible. i found this article in a tuning book and posted it to see what ppl thought, since ill be tuning/modifying a vehicle w/ an maf. motorcycle/atv/utv still use airflow tables and are completely preprogrammed, some models have some closed loop capabilitys but im afraid they are limited and very primitive, no maf to speak of on any model. there are only two bikes that learn, the ducati bikes (magneti marreli injection turn key and active maps) and the buell line (put bike at 5000 rpm 5th gear and let the rpm fluctuate and normalize it learns.) needless to say im def here to gather information and opinions but if i can input what i know here and there ill gladly do it.
 
Found the Answer!!!! Pro M (www.promracing.com) mass air makes custom MAFs to fit your application from the stock full ported size to calibrating it to the size of the injector used, the 3.0 isnt listed but they said call and they should have it. since im going to be boosting my 3.0 turned 3.3 and using 3 inch plumbing i will be using the the 3 inch flowtube MAF w/ programmable setting and set for 44lb/hr injectors. i did the math (thanx rogueperformance.com for the formulas) and for me to make 300 hp i will need a 155lph fuel pump (this will safely make the fuel required for 384 hp actually but i cant get one smaller to make around 300). i will also need 40 lb hour injectors, but the closest size i can find is 44 that is readily available and priced right (accel high impedence injectors for 64.95 a piece or 389.70 is the best i could find.) hope this helps anybody else that is looking to change their MAF for proper performance, granted it will prob be 300 bux but if im going to do it im doing it the right way to avoid costly problems later. just my .02 anyway...:icon_cheers: to those who have done the mod and find themselves w/ better performance for considerably less money.
 
so how much will the MAF, the pump and the injectors be altogether? i'm interested in this :o)
 
you may need other pcm mods to use the hi-imp injectors. seems 30 pounders should work ok to 350 hp though.
 

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