M5OD-R1HD Makes Scraping Sound in All But 4th Gear

[RangerStammy]

I tried searching for the problem, no luck. I've looked though about 12 pages of posts, no luck.

My problem started out after I was T-boned. The hit bent my forward driver's side leaf spring hanger (luckily that was the extent of the damage for me, from what I could tell before), which no doubt yanked the hell out of the entire drive-line.

After driving 75 or so miles around town i noticed a scraping noise coming from my trans. when I started my trek home from school for a funeral.

The noise happens in all gears except 4th. It's best described as a scraping sound. Not a grinding or whining sound. If I clutch it goes away, if there is no loading on the drive-train it goes away (down a hill or foot off the accel just enough to not get engine braking).

Since my last slave cylinder job, I believe the shop had bent one (maybe more?) pressure plate forks and the clutch itself drags sometimes. When I depress the clutch, the transmission continues to spin, not allowing me to put the trans. into any gear. After a few seconds, or attempts at putting the truck into a gear (mind you, there is no grinding, just a thump and a small motion of the truck on every attempt) it will just slide right in like it should. While driving the same thing persists, to a lesser degree. My shifts must be much slower than I know the vehicle is capable of, and sometimes on the 1-2 shift, it takes so long for the clutch to completely disengage that I practically stop. My reservoir for my clutch is still full, I know the slave isn't leaking. I reverse bled it just to make sure all the air was out (best way to bleed the little nasty, btw).

Since I've had the truck (2007, it's a 2003) it has made a "gurgling" noise at low RPM under medium to heavy accel, or under load. Not sure if that is normal or not. Sounds like it comes from the heater core. Maybe just fluid cavitation in the water pump?

Anyway, back to the original problem, I can't tell where the noise is specifically coming from. I know it's definitely clutch or transmission or both. I just rebuilt my transfer case because it had a leak when I nicked it on a stump doing some offroading, (Building skid plates for everything soon, finally have access to a welder! Woohoo!) so I know that isn't the problem either.

It seems like, from my limited knowledge of transmissions, the noise only occurs when there is lateral loading on the internals. 4th gear is essentially a direct link from the input shaft to output shaft so there is only axial loading? This could mean that some bearing(s) are shot in there now and might be a relatively cheap fix? If I was home and not at school I would do the work myself. But I don't have the time or the place to do it here (despite building racecars...).

I don't know if insurance will cover the cost of this repair. I am fairly certain that it can be reasoned that it came about because of the accident. But either way I need to get it fixed before I blow up my trans. The truck is parked right now. Going to take it to a shop not far from school to see if they can at least say what the problem is.

Any help is much appreciated!

 

[trail B2]

This thread might help read mainly allan D's response.

http://www.therangerstation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88472

 

[RangerStammy]

Update (Reponse to what Allan D Posted as well.)

Thanks, I check the fluid and it was still pink just was the day it was put in, in August. There were not any chunks of anything, nor was there much in the way of metallic "dust" in the fluid. There were a few miniscule shavings on the magnet but that is about it.

It doesn't make any sound in neutral, stopped, or with the clutch in.

I am having a local transmission shop check it out on Monday. They do free checks for students. I'm also going to have a friend who owns a local shop look at it at some point next week. He is on a 3 week rotation with the local police station doing towing so he is not always available.

I have had to drive to go to a local metal shop and the noise hasn't gotten any worse. I have noticed the shift pattern has gotten offset from where it used to be. The shifter is still tighter than any other transmission I've used besides some high performance cars and vehicles.

I'm hoping that there isn't anything so borked inside that it isn't salvageable. It is more likely than not that insurance will cover any repairs, but I love my truck so much and don't want to have to get rid of it (big plans for it in the future).

 

[adsm08]

Your clutching issues are from either a failing slave or the system not being bled.

Your gurgling is cavitation in the heater core as you suspect.

Your scraping noise is probably the one main bearing on it's way out.

 

[AllanD]

"Clutch forks"?

If the pressure plate were originally installed and the bolts not tightened in
a criss-cross pattern it's possible that the installer warped the diaphram and this would cause a couple of "high fingers" on the pressure plate.

However this will not cause the throw-out bearing to run constantly.
The simple fact is it is DESIGNED to run constantly.
The throw-out bearing on all 1985-up ford Rangers is as ford describes it
"a constant contact, constant run design"

What a warped pressure plate and a "high finger" can do is introduce "lost motion"
in a system designed to minimize lost motion.


You are talking about "Scraping noises" after impact trauma to the frame.

I'm thinking drivetrain parts, specifically the Transmission, rubbing against
"fixed" components.

Where I'd look? Make sure the sheet metal heat shield alongside the transmission directly above the catalytic converter hasn't been knocked loose and is now rubbing against the transmission case. when the trans, engine are flexed against the motor mounts.

this tiny thing will make the most god-awful noise you can ever have the experience of

I'd also look for "witness marks" on the driveshaft where it might be touching the gas tank skid plate.

Associating this with collision damage might be purely psychological in nature.
(you got hit and repaired and now you are actually listening to somethingthat it was doing before the collision)

 

[RangerStammy]

Thanks all for the responses. Sorry about the wrong terminology for some things, I'm not up on my transmission tech.

I was told by my transmission guy at home that one or two of the pressure plate fingers had gotten bent in a little the last time ( a different shop) had done the slave cylinder, which caused the incomplete disengagement. This was in July when the transfer case was done.

There's nothing visibly rubbing anywhere, and the frame isn't noticeably bent anywhere. It's not exhaust components because right now after last cat, there is nothing. I do know that the pipes aren't rattling around or rubbing on anything because I had recorded video of it back home to make sure.

Through the shifter, I can feel vibration that is most definitely associated with the noise I hear. When in 4th it is completely gone. In every other gear (especially 3,5) the noise and vibration is more than noticeable.

My father's subaru had a heat shield that was loose and rubbing on the exhaust manifold, bouncing around. My sound is not a tinny rattling noise like that. There are no indications on the exterior of anything that show any type of contact. I checked above with an inspection mirror as well. The sound ("event") is a dragging/scraping sound, very dull/deadened, the vibration has a frequency that matches the sound.

The "event" will increase in frequency as speed increases, until I shift up to a higher gear, then it will drop back to a lower frequency and increase again; doing the opposite if I downshift. I hope that makes sense, I'm not really sure how to word what I mean.

My transmission's external temperature readings were right about 171-176 for the mid-section of the transmission after I got back to school. Toward the front 1/8 it got up to about 180, and the back 1/4 was about 180. I don't know if that will help at all.

I don't mean to be difficult or have an attitude with what I'm saying, I'm just trying to be as thorough with my information because I understand how hard it is to diagnose problems without actually being where the problem is. If any other information would be helpful please let me know and I will do my best to get it.

 

[AllanD]

If the transmission heat shield is rubbing against the trans on a ranger it isn't any "little noise" it sounds like a demonically possessed tunnel boring machine is going to come through the floor in the next 30 seconds.


as for "Frame being visibly bent" or not... the back half of the frame on a 1998-up Ranger is REAL easy to bend with any kind of side impact.

If the front spring mount was damages at all I take it as a given that the frame rail
behind that point is bent pretty significantly.... it doesn't take much trust me.

I have an '01 frame here, the spring mounts aren't bent the fiberglass fender wasn't hurt
but both sides of the frame are bent 2" away from the impact side. I say again, it doesn't take much.

AD

 

[4x4junkie]

Somehow I don't see bent frames and rubbing heat shields causing a noise that's absent in 4th gear (especially with the following description added: "The "event" will increase in frequency as speed increases, until I shift up to a higher gear, then it will drop back to a lower frequency and increase again; doing the opposite if I downshift." which says to me there's an issue on the input side of the trans, such as a chipped gear on the input shaft or it's mating gear on the countershaft, or maybe there's a damaged bearing up there)...

I think there's really no other option here than to pull the trans and have a look inside it. Maybe when the leaf hanger was bent, the driveshaft was plunged into the rear of trans causing some internal damage... Or maybe something got shock-loaded and caused whatever is happening. That's about all I have on it.
The clutch thing sounds like a completely separate issue.

 

[RangerStammy]

Thanks everyone for the help!

When the transmission got pulled, the guy immediately called saying it was going to be cheaper to get a new/used transmission than rebuild the old one. I asked what the problem was, and the output shaft bearing and input shaft bearings were gone. How it was holding fluid is beyond me. I got to see the transmission after the "new" one was put in, and things sure were messed up in places I couldn't see from the outside. The transfer case is miraculously not damaged from the transmission being all sloppy in the output shaft.

My clutch was all but fried. The pressure plate fingers were worn back about half an inch and the fiction plate had no material on it.

The fact that it still drove and shifted is a testament to these trucks...

For some reason, it seems the worse the damage is, the better the RBV's handle it, and the more harmless of issues seem to cause the more worse problems.