Lost all tranny fluid

[Brandon12]

91 Explorer with 4.0 and automatic
Problems:
1)It delays a second or two when i shift into a gear then kinda shift hard into that gear...
2) sometimes would just go into neutral, then slam back into gear...
3)rattles...
4) shifts funny and sounds like grinding sometimes
5)today was driving and noticed it being unusual so turned around and went home and 1/2 a mile from home it just wouldn't go so i had to coast home then got out and looked and I left a trail of tranny fluid for about two miles and the rest leaked out in the driveway in-between the block and the tranny, where they bolt together on the bottom.

I thinks the torque converter is shot but I wanted more opinions. Any help is appreciated.

 

[Sasquatch_Ryda]

Sounds like the torque seal or pump seal gave out on you.

 

[Tedybear]

Most likely the torque converter is fine. The front pump seal is most likely shot.

Only thing to do? Drop the transmission and R&R the seal. Also (you'll have to do this anyway..) Drop the pan and inspect the bottom and filter for metal shards. Minor goobers are not a big deal, and normal during the life of a transmission. Looking for fresh kill stuff that points towards a rebuild or replacement.

If you have someone do this for you---or do it yourself? Inspect the hub of the torque converter closely. If you see a small 'ring' indented where the seal was? The torque converter should be replaced or "Sleeved", as that indented ring can wreck a new seal quickly if it's deep enough.

Sometimes you'll get lucky--My old DM had a classic car that dropped the pump seal when he was backing out the driveway. He called me in a panic and I told him flat out--Tow it to the garage that does the work on your classics--Sudden drop of the majority of the fluid will kill off the pressure to the unit, and in some cases? No damage done--everything reverts to a "Neutral" condition. He got lucky with a $10 seal and just the charges for the drop/install.

All depends on how lucky you get---but it will take inspection to find out.

S-

 

[Brandon12]

thank both of you. I will drop it myself and check it out and post the results when i do it. The thing that sucks the most is i was just about to tear apart the ranger for a 302 swap and solid axles. good thing i didnt start yet so i got something to drive.

 

[Tyler Hunn]

Please let me know what was wrong mine is doing the same except i have a ranger. 4.0 a4ld tranny. its always leaked but now it gets real hot and sprays tranny fluid exactly how you describe. hunntyl2008@yahoo.com

how hard is it to drop the tranny and change the seals.?

 

[Tedybear]

Please let me know what was wrong mine is doing the same except i have a ranger. 4.0 a4ld tranny. its always leaked but now it gets real hot and sprays tranny fluid exactly how you describe. hunntyl2008@yahoo.com

how hard is it to drop the tranny and change the seals.?

Dropping the transmission and changing out the front seal is always time consuming and can be hard without some help. Haynes manual can help a bit with specs and the how-to's and all that.

If in fact the leak is at the converter/front seal itself however. Getting hot and spraying fluid could also be a sign of being overfilled, incorrect cooling used, etc..

Now the key points with that front seal.

If used---and I'm working off memory of our BII 89's 2.9v6.

At the rear end of the crankshaft will be a spacer block that the flex plate bolts onto. Anytime and I mean ANYTIME!! you have either the engine out or transmission out? You will want to fully inspect that part. If you see any signs of cracks--replace it. If you think it looks 'egg shaped'? Replace it.

That part is where the nub/hub/center bit of the torque converter actually sits into. If that bit is not 100%? The torque converter CAN actually become slightly cocked off to one side when you bolt it together. This is what killed my 2nd A4LD. We put it in..and had a very slight "Warble" sound. No one could really pin point the source---until the front seal gave out.

We pulled the torque converter and found a heavy score mark where it contacts the bushing...(that was also roasted) We looked at the spacer? Eggshaped and cracked in several spots. If that's not spinning 100% "True"? Then it takes out the seal...and worst case? It can take out the pump!

2nd major point to inspect: The torque converter's large hub that slides down into the seal to the pump. You might see a thin "line" on it that circles it. That's where the seal has been riding all this time. If you can catch that "line" with a fingernail? Even if just a little bit? Either replace it with a rebuilt one, or ask a transmission shop if they can install a "Sleeve" for you. Sleeves are used in this application and also on cranks where the seal can wear a groove into the part. If that area is not 100% smooth and looking good? It will cause your new seal to wear out wicked quick.

Last point: Check the manual--While this is true of the A4LD's I've been working with? The seal, most likely will need to be installed--and then "Staked" in a few places in order to really hold it in place. The seal just sits in a collar of aluminum, and it can work itself out over time if not installed right. We actually staked ours in carefully using a small chisel and hammer. (Had advise from the transmission shop, due to no one having the actual staking tool available).

Final thought: If you have 4WD? It's best to drop that transfer case first before dropping the transmission. That transfer case is a BEAST! Yea Yea...ours has a 2wd transfer dummy case...and it can be R&R with it attached. But I'd hate to attempt that with a fully loaded case hanging off the end.

S-

 

[ragajungle]

Tedybear: That's so GREAT INFO!

Sorry to hijack but, if the score on the input or output shaft is minor enough could it be buffed out with scotch-brite and polish?

Do you have pics or "staking"?



My bad, I'm about to drop a 5r55e and I had the same Q's

 

[Tedybear]

Tedybear: That's so GREAT INFO!

Sorry to hijack but, if the score on the input or output shaft is minor enough could it be buffed out with scotch-brite and polish?

Do you have pics or "staking"?



My bad, I'm about to drop a 5r55e and I had the same Q's

Honestly I wouldn't try it. Consider this: You spend several hours removing the transmission....another hour or so "Polishing"...and several hours putting it back in. And if that doesn't get a "mirror" finish? Then the seal could fail again--and then you're right back in the same boat. Plus any chance of 'left overs' getting into the transmission? I wouldn't personally take the risk.

As for "Staking"? I did a fast search...didn't find anything quick. You'll be able to tell if yours is staked however-- The outer aluminum 'ring' around the seal will have pretty clear notches in 3-4 places around the seal. You'll be able to see how the edges of the notches seem to "Curl" over the seal's outer lip. That gives the seal a more firm mount.

I wish you the best with yours....and hope like He&& I never have to do the same job again LOL. (We've had ours in and out 4 times......)

S-

 

[ragajungle]

4-5x yikes! I feel like a criminal jackin this thread, but if they are gonna pull the trans for the seal they ought to know about this stuff too....

I have been doing a lot of research on my 99 sport with 5r55e (mine sprays a line of tranny fluid too-AND no reverse) and found a ton at explorer forums, but nothing about this seal. What problems did you have that you had to pull it out so many times? (so I can NOT pull it 4x )

 

[Tedybear]

First time, the one that came with the truck was "Rebuilt" by an idiot. We pulled it apart and (it's waiting for me to get the time to rebuild it) The idiot never torqued the pump bolts to the bell housing. So the pump was doing the 'Scootchy-Scootchy' and it had massive pressure problems.

Second was the one from the boneyard, with a recent rebuild. Had I researched things here more, and learned about the crank-spacer? The torque converter would have been in 100% "True" and not allowed to damage the pump seal and bushing.

Third time was getting the pump/bushing rebuilt for same transmission...and it had more internal damage then I counted on.

Forth and (God I hope final time LOL) Another bone yard transmission....this one actually had DIRT and small rocks in the pan?!?!? Looks like the guy dumped it when he pulled it. However!! We cleaned the case...pulled the pan and hosed the snot out of the insides with brake cleaner (4 cans worth)...air hosed it several times....more brake cleaner... And said hell...new filter, converter, seal.. And it's been running fairly good for the last YEAR!! (watch...I'll hit the "Post" button...and overdrive will take a dump tomorrow... LOL)

So that's 4 times in and out..(depressing if you think about it).

The only reason we didn't crap-can the truck at this point? It's got like---Zero rust issues. Light surface rust on the frame in a few spots....But it's damn near mint! body wise. Sure...could use a paint job....light surface rust on the roof in a couple of stone chipped areas..

My step father stated I should just trade it in for a newer truck. But why at this point? I know every detail.....Paid only $600 for it...And I know it's problem areas that can cost me more $$. Can anyone say that about another used car or truck? Most of the time we wind up hitting the 'C-List' or local papers looking for a good cheap 'dependable' ride. What we wind up with? Is dealing with other peoples headaches. I'm into this for let's see: (not to hyjack this thread anymore LOL)

$600 for the truck
$180 for two cylinder heads (bare, world products)
$150 give/take in gaskets
$55 for the battery
$45 for the o2 sensor
$25 for the map sensor
$25 for the TPS sensor
$250x2 for bone yard transmissions
$50 give/take transmission fluid/filters/etc...
$55 for a steering box
$150 for all 4 brakes totally rebuilt (all for the parts, I do my own labor)
$300 in tires
$350 towed and starter install (got stuck at the mall I work from, can't work on anything in the parking lot)
$18 fuel injector rebuild kit
$30 two replacement injectors that could not get rebuilt.
$45 to replace the duff TFI module.....

There's probably a lot more I'm missing...like the $50 boneyard alternator. (some idiot swapped in an alternator from a F150...so the normal replacement wouldn't work with the brackets)...

Yeah...Nuts, right? But owning one of these little snots? It's a labor of love...or insanity. Your choice on that one

S-

 

[ragajungle]

B2?

It's a sad transmission to begin with. I am soooooo glad to have an M5 in my B2! I'm half tempted to scrap the 5r55E and go with a manual in the ExSport,,,just easier it seems like. Everyone it seems like has to pull the A4LD, 4r55e, 4r44e and 5r55e has to drop the trans repeatedly - even after a "professional" rebuild...

Someone on explorer forums brought up the fact that you are really supposed to change the radiator and aux cooler after a rebuild b/c crap, debris are in them from the previous issues. probably something to consider!