Gt40 vs Flotek heads

[Bigmatthew86]

I needed 6.3 pushrods to get what I needed with stock gt40’s, stock rockers, & comp xe258. I had some shims on deck but didn’t need them. If you need longer pushrods, just buy longer pushrods.

 

[JoshT]

You still didn't say how you are going to adjust the valves if you need to on the Ford heads. Order shorter or longer pushrods?

I didn;t say, because it doesn't matter. I was intentionally ignoring your portion of imput in this thread. If you would take a moment to study an engine that isn't you beloved SBC you would realize that you are making that adjustment (or lack there of) out to be a much bigger deal than it is. The valve adjustment you are so worried about, is actually lash adjustment intended to compensate for camshft wear during the life of the motor not for setting initial valvetrain geometry.

The correct answer is set up your valve and rocker geometery correctly when building and you won't need adjusters. In my case it means selecting a camshaft, lifters, valves, and rockers, then getting the pushrods sized correctly for that combination.

What does this mean for my engine?

Well the 302 I'm building off of uses hydraulic roller lifters, it's staying that way and will likely get roller rockers added. The rollers virtually eliminate wear that would cause lash adjustments to be required over the life of the engine. What small amount of wear does occour over the life of the engine will be accounted for via the hydraulic lifters. That is why you might notice that as Ford phased in hydraulic lifters on their engines, they also phased out lash adjustment on the rockers. I'm not reinventing the wheel. I'm keeping the hydraulic roller valvetrain, selecting my components, and specing pushrods for those components.

Regardless of make or valve train adjustment, if you are changing heads, cams, etc. you should be measuring for and installing correct (likely custom) length pushrods anyway.

 

[franklin2]

On most Ford engines, they never had valve adjustment. And I do not favor Ford or chevy, most people would not know the difference between a bare block 302 and a bare block 350 sitting side by side. I think most engineers went to the same school.

I am not sure why everyone thinks the lifter preload is for camshaft wear. It's to properly push the plunger down in the lifter the preset amount so the lifter works properly.

And when building a engine that is not factory, you sure do need to check this, and add or subtract somewhere to get the lifter preload correct. There are just extra steps on most Ford engines, and even chevy when to a non-adjustable valve train on their famous LS engines.

Without getting too technical, it's very easy to check. Just pretend you are adjusting a chevy Seriously, just turn the engine around to TDC of the cylinder of your choice, loosen the rocker bolts till you have play in the pushrod, slowly tighten till you have zero play, and then stare at the ratchet and count the turns as you tighten the bolt till it stops. If it took 1/2-3/4 turn, great. 1 turn would probably even work. Beyond that too much, or very much less than 1/2 turn, you are in the iffy zone.

 

[JoshT]

Yeah, I'm going back to ignoring you now. I did not and do not care about your valve adjustment concerns. I was commenting on heads, not valve trains, and on @19Walt93's mention of ported GT40s.

 

[rubydist]

The other thing that I don't believe has been mentioned yet is that aluminum heads will allow you to run at least 1 point higher compression ratio, so you can make more power from that as well. The combination of the AFR heads flowing more and allowing higher compression make them far more valuable than the GT40s even if those are ported.

 

[bobbywalter]

its pretty simple. any stock ford head.....even gt 40 heads.... are garbage if you want to make modern power. if your good with capping out at 330 hp then for sure run the irons.

if you have to take the expense to lift the heads on a stock explorer engine...then considering real heads should be priority.

for sure....especially the early on chineesium....shitty aluminum heads can be catastrophic..... but today...they are much better.

odds.....odds are you will be 50 hp ahead with shitty box stock aluminum heads on an otherwise stock explorer engine. built to 400 hp goals...you will be able to pull it off much easier....and cheaper.....and easily exceed that.

if you are running a carb application it is a no brainer to run the speed master heads. they were in the 1100 range last i looked.

i would use at least the trickflow,afr or edelbrock heads if i were building an engine with eye on longevity.





in the junkyard budget world....

since going with no less then 400hp has been the bar from about 2004 or so...i just got right away from the windsor.

since about 2014 or so its been 600hp....i am talking daily driver machines here....

and here the last few years 4 digit horsepower is the new 500....and 500 is all a 302 can handle anyway.....



but...i can say this....these flotek heads have my attention. i can build 450 plus reliable hp with a version of them and on a semi- junkyard budget.


i suspect edelbrock will be able to get close to this....but so far since they shitcanned California it has not happened...

i love the packaging capacity of the 302....and have an application for one if the numbers roll right. and these heads are the key.

i would run them.

 

[JoshT]

I’d sell the gt40’s & put that money towards aluminum heads. This is coming from a guy with gt40’s on his truck in the garage. If you have 2 sets to sell you should have at least $500 in heads. Run the gt40 intake, get the lower ported if you can swing it. If not run it as is & port it later if you want. It looks like the afr enforcers flow more out of the box than ported gt40’s & you lose 50lbs off the front end. I’ve seen several sets of twisted wedge heads on marketplace in the $12-1400 around here as well. So you’d probably be happy with the 40’s but you’ll probably end up wishing you’d have gone bigger. You’ll need springs & pushrods anyway. So if you get them ported you’ll end up close to the $1000 mark I bet.

Yeah,I could give a long explination of why that isn't going to work. I did, but didn't like what I typed. So, instead I'll give this shorter long explination.

1) Not selling the GT40s. I have to complete 5.0L Explorer drivetrains known to be in good running condition. Only one known good EFI system though. I stripped the other harness down to bare essentials and never got around to testing it. Even if I purchase a set of aftermarket heads for this project I'll be keeping the other engine complete and the spare set of heads around. Might want the other complete engine for a spare or for another project (like the one it was originally bought for).

2) I don't trust marketplace for things like that. I and people I know have been bitten too many times by "good" parts on the various sites. I'll use it for things that I can easily check and varify are good. Used aftermarket heads are not one of those things and I don;t have a problem admitting it. I'd rather spend the extra $500 to buy new than risk buying damage I can't see.

3) I'll likely have to buy springs and pushrods for any combination I end up with, so that money is a wash. Price comparison should be straight up price of reworking and porting GT40s I own vs NIB Aftermarket Aluminum.

4) Weight isn't really an issue. It's going to be a AWD/4WD truck. The different weight of the heads is going to be lost in the additional drivetrain components and larger wheels and tires (than normal for a performance V8 Ranger). Besides, this isn't likely to see track time and I'm not looking to shave 10ths of a second (or even full seconds) off track times. Actually shaving seconds is more likely to be a goal for the spare motor in a potential future project.

 

[bobbywalter]

Yeah,I could give a long explination of why that isn't going to work. I did, but didn't like what I typed. So, instead I'll give this shorter long explination.

1) Not selling the GT40s. I have to complete 5.0L Explorer drivetrains known to be in good running condition. Only one known good EFI system though. I stripped the other harness down to bare essentials and never got around to testing it. Even if I purchase a set of aftermarket heads for this project I'll be keeping the other engine complete and the spare set of heads around. Might want the other complete engine for a spare or for another project (like the one it was originally bought for).

2) I don't trust marketplace for things like that. I and people I know have been bitten too many times by "good" parts on the various sites. I'll use it for things that I can easily check and varify are good. Used aftermarket heads are not one of those things and I don;t have a problem admitting it. I'd rather spend the extra $500 to buy new than risk buying damage I can't see.

3) I'll likely have to buy springs and pushrods for any combination I end up with, so that money is a wash. Price comparison should be straight up price of reworking and porting GT40s I own vs NIB Aftermarket Aluminum.

4) Weight isn't really an issue. It's going to be a AWD/4WD truck. The different weight of the heads is going to be lost in the additional drivetrain components and larger wheels and tires (than normal for a performance V8 Ranger). Besides, this isn't likely to see track time and I'm not looking to shave 10ths of a second (or even full seconds) off track times. Actually shaving seconds is more likely to be a goal for the spare motor in a potential future project.

working a set of gt40 heads against box stock flo tek is negative equity to 70 to 100 hp i would wager.

i have seen summit brand heads on 11 to 1 363 na rip just short of 600 hp and it was out of injector....that was spring 22 and iirc just under 1600 total assembled with arp bolts. of course the block it was on was 3 grand...but the intended heads were weeks out...and those were immediately available. i have been trying to buy them off of dane for some time now...and he says they will be repurposed eventually... so the flo teks are an acceptable backup to me.

they are much more streetable then what we have sitting on the shelf.

 

[franklin2]

Yeah, I'm going back to ignoring you now. I did not and do not care about your valve adjustment concerns. I was commenting on heads, not valve trains, and on @19Walt93's mention of ported GT40s.

10-4

 

[Bigmatthew86]

It sounds like you have your mind made up on the gt40’s so run them. I’m running them too. They aren’t that good however & in the future I’ll be replacing them. I’ve had good luck buying off marketplace but I understand just buying new. That’s why I suggested the enforcers. You get the china castings but put together with afr specs.

 

[JoshT]

its pretty simple. any stock ford head.....even gt 40 heads.... are garbage if you want to make modern power. if your good with capping out at 330 hp then for sure run the irons.

if you have to take the expense to lift the heads on a stock explorer engine...then considering real heads should be priority.

for sure....especially the early on chineesium....shitty aluminum heads can be catastrophic..... but today...they are much better.

odds.....odds are you will be 50 hp ahead with shitty box stock aluminum heads on an otherwise stock explorer engine. built to 400 hp goals...you will be able to pull it off much easier....and cheaper.....and easily exceed that.

if you are running a carb application it is a no brainer to run the speed master heads. they were in the 1100 range last i looked.

i would use at least the trickflow,afr or edelbrock heads if i were building an engine with eye on longevity.





in the junkyard budget world....

since going with no less then 400hp has been the bar from about 2004 or so...i just got right away from the windsor.

since about 2014 or so its been 600hp....i am talking daily driver machines here....

and here the last few years 4 digit horsepower is the new 500....and 500 is all a 302 can handle anyway.....



but...i can say this....these flotek heads have my attention. i can build 450 plus reliable hp with a version of them and on a semi- junkyard budget.


i suspect edelbrock will be able to get close to this....but so far since they shitcanned California it has not happened...

i love the packaging capacity of the 302....and have an application for one if the numbers roll right. and these heads are the key.

i would run them.

That's the thing though. You said yourself. The SBF isn't going to be competitive, so why try. If you are looking to compete use a different motor.

That doesn't mean that the SBF isn't still a viable candidate for a V8 swap. The 99 Ranger 4.0L made what around 160 hp stock, by the 200k mile mark it's probably closer to the 150 figure. 300 hp might not be good numbers by today's standards, but it's still double what these trucks came with stock. Might be a plenty for someone like me just wanting to have fun with it and use it.

Different strokes for different folks. We don't all need high triple digit or quad digit horse power numbers. I think I could be very happy with 300 to 350 in a Ranger. I think even dropping in the stock 215 hp Explorer 5.0 will be a nice improvement.

Now realistically speaking, 300 is a number that can probably be hit pretty easily with bone stock iron heads and a cam change. Little mild clean up work can probably make them even better and is something that can be done on the work bench at home.

 

[Bigmatthew86]

Do you have a set of headers? The factory maifolds are the biggest choke point. They handicap everything else.

 

[JoshT]

It sounds like you have your mind made up on the gt40’s so run them. I’m running them too. They aren’t that good however & in the future I’ll be replacing them. I’ve had good luck buying off marketplace but I understand just buying new. That’s why I suggested the enforcers. You get the china castings but put together with afr specs.

Only thing my mind is made up about is that I'm putting a 5.0 in the Ranger, and that to begin with it's going to be a stock explorer 5.0L. I fully expect the plans for the engine and the overall build to change over time as I drive and use the truck.

One thing I want is to have is a build that looks like it could have come from the factory that way. Having aluminum heads and other speed parts under the hood will kind of break that illusion. Headers being the exception since im not going to run the explorer manifolds if I can avoid it. I'm not completely rejecting it, but not the preference. If I decide that aluminum is what I need, then aluminum it will get. If that happens, throw some paint on them and they won't be too noticable buried under everything else in the engine bay.

 

[JoshT]

Do you have a set of headers? The factory maifolds are the biggest choke point. They handicap everything else.

I've got a few options, will have to see what's going to work best.

 

[Bigmatthew86]

In a ranger the torque monster seem to be the best. The copy obx are what I have & seem to be pretty decent quality. Regular header won’t fit.