Gasoline Alley

[Fast Eddie]

I was wondering if E15 gasoline would cause any damage to older vehicles. I have a 2004 and run E10. Everything seems to be ok (going on 100k [knock wood]). Any experts out there that can speak to this? Thanks.

Below citations are for reference and not a political statement

"President Joe Biden will say Tuesday that the EPA will allow the sale this summer of gasoline with a higher percentage of ethanol than other fuels, senior administration officials said.
Lawmakers of both parties from the Senate and House have pushed the Biden administration to waive restrictions on E15 fuel, which contains up to 15 percent ethanol, a biofuel derived from feedstocks like corn, sugar cane or grass".

Biden to announce summer sales of 15 percent ethanol fuel blend - Roll Call

 

[sgtsandman]

Ford says no.

 

[Fast Eddie]

Ford says no.

I'm reading that to mean 'no, no damage' and not 'no, do not use'?

 

[sgtsandman]

Do not use. They and Honda both say the fuel system isn’t designed for it and it will damage the system.

If you have a flex fuel vehicle, you are wide open for whatever but everyone else, unless the manual says you can use it, don’t.

It will damage the seals and hoses. It could cause corrosion in the metal lines and components.

 

[Dirt Squirt]

Thanks Joe, you just voided warranties on all gas powered equipment ever made. Ethanol is evil. Great for mower repair business though.

 

[sgtsandman]

Even E10 has been a problem. I personally haven’t had a problem, maybe because I use stabil.

Anyway, it’s reputed to damage the fuel systems on air cooled engines. Motorcyclists especially love it and some go to extreme lengths to get non-ethanol gasoline for them. Last I heard, before Covid, 5 gallons of non-ethanol gas was $50. It’s probably a lot more now. I know those 1 gallon cans are about $15 at the Stihl dealership and the hardware store.

 

[Fast Eddie]

Thanks Joe, you just voided warranties on all gas powered equipment ever made. Ethanol is evil. Great for mower repair business though.

Maybe your next vehicle will be electric. Isn't that the goal?

And just to confuse matters:
"E15 has been certified for use in any gasoline-powered car with a U.S.-certified emissions system from 2001 or newer, whether it’s flex fuel or not. To be clear, 90 percent of all vehicles on the road today fall into this 2001-and-up category, so chances are that’s your vehicle. Many people have used it in older cars too, but use in 2001 and newer has been tested and approved by the Environmental Protection Agency and Department of Energy. Older models were not tested due to variability and age".

Mechanics Corner: What You Need to Know About Using E15 - Vital | A news & media resource published by POET (vitalbypoet.com)

 

[Roert42]

The idea is not to change all gas to E15, just to make E15 available in the summer months at gas stations that normally sell E15. At the moment they are able to sell E15 from Fall through spring because it supposedly causes more smog when it's hot outside.

And just to confuse matters:
"E15 has been certified for use in any gasoline-powered car with a U.S.-certified emissions system from 2001 or newer, whether it’s flex fuel or not. To be clear, 90 percent of all vehicles on the road today fall into this 2001-and-up category, so chances are that’s your vehicle. Many people have used it in older cars too, but use in 2001 and newer has been tested and approved by the Environmental Protection Agency and Department of Energy. Older models were not tested due to variability and age".

Certified for use from an emissions standpoint. As in the emissions system will still function correctly. Doesn't make any note of if any of your seals or filters ect will be effected.

Says right on the gas cap not to used any fuel with more then 10% ethanol.

 

[Fast Eddie]

Says right on the gas cap not to used any fuel with more then 10% ethanol.

I can't find anything on my truck that says that and the owner's manual doesn't address it. I'll stick with 10% or above. Thanks.

 

[racsan]

If there wasnt a choice ( as in no other option, like if 15% E was all you could get ) would sta-bil counteract the E15 and save you from fuel system damage? Im sure it would kill my ‘94, The escape can handle it but the mpg’s go down. Im not sure about the hhr but I dont think its a flex-fuel compatible engine (or whatever gm calls that)

 

[dirtymike]

And i sold my last MULE!!

 

[JohnnyO]

They sell E15 which is up to 15% ethanol where I live and the stickers on the pumps say only to use in 2001 and newer vehicles.
There is also E85 which the stickers on the pumps here say is 51% to 85% ethanol and to use only in Flex Fuel vehicles.
I've run E15 in my old '08 Sport Trac and my new '20 Ranger without issue, however....
Regular gas here is E10 anyway. Several years ago my Sport Trac suddenly started running rough and I got a CEL. I limped into the service station I used at the time where the owner showed me his brand new poster from BG additives with a photo of fuel injectors at 60,000 miles all clogged up from ethanol.
My Trac had, ta-dah, 61,000 miles. Apparently the extra ethanol absorbs water into the gas and it burns off at the injectors and can cause deposits and clog them.
This was before E15 was available, I had always used plain ol' 87 that was 10%. They cleaned the injectors and dumped a can of BG Water Remover in the tank and told me to run a bottle of fuel system cleaner like Chevron Techron at every oil change. I ran the Trac to 212,000 miles doing that and never had another problem even though later I often ran E15.
I run E15 in the new Ranger almost all the time since it's currently 30 cents cheaper than 87 and have no issues. Owners manuals for my old Trac and new Ranger say ethanol up to 15% (E15) is okay.
Based on personal experience and what I've read, I would do this:
1. If your vehicle is 2001 or newer, you will be fine.
2. If you've not run E15 before, after a couple tanks of it put on an new fuel filter.
3. Dump in a bottle of Chevron Techron Fuel System Cleaner every 5000 miles.
4. DO NOT run E85 Flex Fuel unless you have a 99+ 3.0 Ranger with the green leaf flex fuel emblem on the tailgate. My first Ranger was a '99 3.0 and so labeled although at that time flex fuel E85 was not sold in my part of the country anyway. Further, my wife has a Flex Fuel Chrysler minivan and she's tried E85 which is much cheaper but the mpg dropped enough that she didn't really save any money.

Sorry to run on.

 

[ZMan]

Many sheetz sell E15 year round so I was kind of confused about the statement that it wasn't certified to be sold year round. I just started running it in my '13 F150 ecoboost, fuel filler says "E0-E15" so figured I'd save myself 30 cents a gallon untill prices drop and I put my 93 tune back on My 2001 Honda says no though, but its steel tank, steel lines, and aluminum intake so I can see why.

 

[TDI Ranger]

I wonder if all states will be affected? I may have to start testing all of my fuel. There are testers that will indicate the % of ethanol in gas. Ethanol is good for the repair business. I don't have any problem using E10 in a vehicle I use all the time, but no way in something that sits between use.

I made some pictures that may be interesting from a training textbook concerning the effects of ethanol. Basically what was taught to us was fuel is only designed to be fresh for about 2 weeks from the time it leaves the refinery. It is usually at the 2 week mark when it gets dropped at the gas station, therefore it is degrading every day after that point, causing deposits inside the engine.

No E15 for me. We need to drill rather than burning our food. Do any of us expect any intelligence from this current administration?

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

E15... I wouldn't worry about it if it doesn't set too long.

No E15 for me. We need to drill rather than burning our food. Do any of us expect any intelligence from this current administration?

Actually giving a market to the surplus of corn the US grows isn't necessarily a bad thing.