Frame rivets to bolts

[Mac]

I should have said "never use lock washers", I'd go ahead and use lock nuts or Loctite but usually the correct torque is good enough. How many other places on the truck use lock nuts and are perfectly safe?
Dave

 

[Rex2nr]

Thanks guys! I will grab some 1/2-20s if I can find them in grade 8. Might be a bit overkill but it's my frame, I don't want to cut corners.

 

[Mark_88]

Thanks guys! I will grab some 1/2-20s if I can find them in grade 8. Might be a bit overkill but it's my frame, I don't want to cut corners.

The price difference between the grades used to be significant. I remember paying $10 per bolt for GR 8 to replace my cab hardware ($60 just for the cab bolts). Last year when I replaced it again on the new frame they were only about $2 per bolt (6" x 1/2" x 4 and x 4")...

The auto parts store in town stocks them now...years ago I had to go to a specialty hardware store...so shouldn't be a problem getting a handful of 2" x 1/2" bolts

 

[Mark_88]

I should have said "never use lock washers", I'd go ahead and use lock nuts or Loctite but usually the correct torque is good enough. How many other places on the truck use lock nuts and are perfectly safe?
Dave

I had a whole small container full of automotive lock nuts and some lock washers...I think some of them might have been from the bumpers...and now that I think about it...it might have been me that put some on...I used some to install my box after I realized I couldn't get the C-nuts that Ford used on the 88...(until later when I found a better supplier)...

I guess after 17 years of building the truck I made some errors here and there...lol

 

[Curious Hound]

Mac,

I wanted to argue with you about the use of lock washers, but wisely decided not to. Apparently, I have been misinformed over my many years in the maintenance industry. A quick Google search brought me to this website. click here Very informative. I need to study the rest of it. The 2 videos on the linked page are very interesting.

Also, there are many types of lock washers. Maybe some are more effective than others.

Thanks for the eye-opening.

BTW, alwaysFlOoReD, structural steel does see a lot of vibration and movement. Of course it varies with the application. But almost everything around us vibrates. Buildings are continuously vibrating due to equipment and moving objects and people inside them, plus movements subjected from outside, such as a truck or train passing by. Tall buildings, especially are designed to allow a certain amount of movement and flexing due to wind loading. You can also find many videos of bridges and ships flexing wildly - some failing and others not. It's pretty cool when you think about it.

 

[Rex2nr]

Even better, my local Home Depot carries 12x1.75mm grade 10.9 bolts. They were actually cheaper than the 8.8/grade 5 bolts and no drilling or tapping. Life will be good if I can get my bed off. The 2 front bolts are frozen.

 

[Mark_88]

Apply plenty of PB Blaster or similar penetrating oil...and let it sit for a bit...be prepared to replace a C-nut or two if they snap...I broke two or three of them but didn't find them when I first did this...I found them last year at my local parts store...and replaced all with good working clips and bolts.

 

[Rex2nr]

I've got it soaking for the night. I'll probably apply another shot before the night is up.

I already had to weld one of the bumper clips to get the bumper off.

 

[Mark_88]

well....welding them is kinda like rocket science compared to what I would have done... Sounds like you're on your way to success...I would have pulled the box and then put an impact socket on them and a johnson bar...would work that way too...

I meant to mention...check out Adsm08 build thread if you have time...worth looking at if you are going to all this effort...might do something to preserve it a bit...

 

[ratdude747]

I should have said "never use lock washers", I'd go ahead and use lock nuts or Loctite but usually the correct torque is good enough. How many other places on the truck use lock nuts and are perfectly safe?
Dave

"Star" lockwashers for low-medium stress usually works. Split ones are likely usesless though. NASA did a study on that... Split washers made loosening worse in high-vibration situations. If I was to guess why, it's because of the spring action such washers use to lock. But, while I have an Engineering Technology degree (and am an engineer in the automotive manufacturing industry), the degree is in electrical, not mechanical so all I know is outside of school.

The price difference between the grades used to be significant. I remember paying $10 per bolt for GR 8 to replace my cab hardware ($60 just for the cab bolts). Last year when I replaced it again on the new frame they were only about $2 per bolt (6" x 1/2" x 4 and x 4")...

In my experience they do cost more but IMHO if you're at all concerned, the cost difference is pocket change compared to cheaping out and having them break at the worst possible time.

 

[Mark_88]

For what it's worth...the box I put on in 2001 (or so) was still tight as a drum in 2014 when I removed the cab...the cab bolts were torqued but the box was not...I just stuck a Johnson bar on them and cranked them as much as I could.

The hardware was pooched though which kinda pissed me off because the body mounts and all cost me over $400 back then...maybe someone has a good idea for coating the hardware to keep it from seizing and rusting...

 

[Curious Hound]

Mark,

Anti-seize products really do work. Not sure if it matters whether you use copper-based or nickel-based anti-seize. I normally use "Never-Seez" BRAND.

But when using anti-seize, torque specs should be lowered. So, on smaller fasteners, be careful or you will strip or break them easier.

 

[Mark_88]

Oh, I'm sure they work...but has anyone actually dipped an entire bolt in it to prevent the bolt from rusting so badly that they snap?

Has anyone used anything that prevents the sleeves on body mounts from rusting themselves onto the bolts making them almost impossible to salvage?

I was more concerned with getting the hardware on and tightened properly and overlooked coating the last set that was so expensive...and kicked myself firmly in the butt because I didn't think I would ever have to remove the cab again...

Very limited foresight on that project...which ended up delaying and adding costs to the next stage of it when I had to do the whole thing over again....

 

[Rex2nr]

I usually use a good dab of antiseize at the end of the bolt, then allow it to work through the nut as I thread it in- if I remember it in the first place.

Those front bed bolts were a pain- 3 hours to get them off. I was using an impact and broke 2 t55 bits. I finally just grabbed my breaker bar and jack handle and popped the drivers bolt loose. The passenger stripped right out though. I ended up welding a 3/4" nut to the top of the bolt and breaking it loose with the impact.

 

[don4331]

Ranger frames were made from 1017 steel (low carbon - 36ksi yield).

Grade 8 bolts achieve their strength by being a medium carbon alloy heat treated steel. If you weld them post install installation; you are destroying the heat treatment; better to use lock-tite red.

I-Car collision repair states the rivets can be replaced with 7/16" Grade 8 bolts after enlarging hole for the 3/8" or 10mm rivet after torqued to 33-50 ft-lbs; the 7/16" or 12mm rivets replaced by 1/2" Grade 5 bolts torqued to 53-75 ft-lbs. The repair manual specifically cautions to avoid creating stress concentrations.*

I believe the gas tank bracket has 3/8" rivets.

*AlwaysFlOoReD posted Ford's document on frames a while back, but I can't find it this morning. It also cautions against adding too much strength in a location as that would cause stress concentrations.

AlwayFlOoReD was cautioning me about too much frame doubler/welding.