Fords "plant" in south america

[Nipplechops]

If the big three go under, the import companies will be in really bad shape as well. They all have the same suppliers and the big three together buy a lot more parts than their asian counterparts.

Big three goes under = parts suppliers go under = interesting problems for forgein competitors as millions of people will be out of work and not interested in buying cars that they can't get parts to build anyway.

It is called free enterprise. Yes, it will suck in the short term. Companies will adapt, as will people. Manufacturing as a whole is changing and the Big Three refuse to change with it.

Feel free to believe it or not, but the days of being able to get a great job with just a high school diploma are over. All of the subsidies in the world won't change that.

 

[holyford86]

I don't think that the wages themselves are what is hurting the manufacturers, it probably is their resistance to making processes more efficent and cheaper. Lean manufacturing is where it's at. Even keeping smaller inventories of parts and assemblies will save loads of money. You eliminate warehousing you eliminate quite a bit of cost. Cross train employees from different divisions so they can fill empty spots instead of doing nothing and getting paid to do so. Toyota pioneered lean manufacturing AKA the Toyota production system. Notice how their company makes money and the American auto manufacturers don't. I don't need to hear that they aren't paying their employees what the American companies pay theirs. $40 bucks an hour is quite a bit of money and I bet there are some people in American car plants making that, that's roughly $80,000 a year before taxes, cut 10-15 dollars off that and its still a decent chunk of money. to take home. Then there's that guy at the dealership making $15 an hour on flat rate and busting his ass to get 160% so he can take home a decent check, that guy has to know how to take those cars apart and put them back together quickly and do everything right in a place that isn't as ergonomically designed as an assembly line where all you have to do is put assembly "A" on to assembly "B" and fasten with 4 bolts from "Bin 1", 500 times a day.
/rant

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

It is called free enterprise. Yes, it will suck in the short term. Companies will adapt, as will people. Manufacturing as a whole is changing and the Big Three refuse to change with it.

Feel free to believe it or not, but the days of being able to get a great job with just a high school diploma are over. All of the subsidies in the world won't change that.

I believe it, trust me, it is hard to get a job WITH a degree right now... and I don't think dumping millions of people into the unemployment line would improve that, that could be the tipping point from recession to depression IMO.

 

[OilPatch197]

Because protectionism is such a noble cause, right? Protectionism will only gaurantee that the Big Three will fail becuase they will have no reason to change their archaic business model. Bailing them out with taxpayer cash will do much the same.

The Ford plant in Brazil is the future of manufacturing whether you like it or not. There is no gaurantee in the U.S. Constitution to a nice union job with cushy wages and benefits. Production work on the large scale is UNSKILLED labour and in most cases can be done by machines for a tenth of the cost. The UAW is living in the 50's, just like the CEO's.

Want to stay employed? Stop relying on collectivism for your own well being and start taking responsibility for yourself. Unions breed dependency much the same as welfare does.

When the UAW/CAW unions finally croak due to their own greed, I'll be the first to throw a party like none ever seen before. Same goes for the CEO's of the Big Three that have run these companies into the ground. I'll even pick up the booze tab.

= UAW/CAW

What a Ignorant fool. Have you not stuck your nose in a history textbook?

United States was the leading nation opposed to the "free trade" theory. President Washington called tariffs the "Second Declaration of Independence".

Under free trade the trader is the master and the producer the slave. Protection is but the law of nature, the law of self-preservation, of self-development, of securing the highest and best destiny of the race of man. It is said, that protection is immoral…. Why, if protection builds up and elevates 63,000,000 of people, the influence of those 63,000,000 of people elevates the rest of the world. We cannot take a step in the pathway of progress without benefitting mankind everywhere. Well, they say, ‘Buy where you can buy the cheapest'…. Of course, that applies to labor as to everything else. Let me give you a maxim that is a thousand times better than that, and it is the protection maxim: ‘Buy where you can pay the easiest.' And that spot of earth is where labor wins its highest rewards.

I am a assembly line operator, not skill trade. I am also not union, I make more than my union SKILLED Father. I question Nipplechops arrogant remarks, what qualifications do you have Nipplechops? I got real-world experience, what do you bring to the table?

It all comes down to what the company agrees with the employees, in good time the unions can rape the company, in hard times it is not so.

Economic development that surpasses a country's neighbor's is always done with strong protectionist measures. Look at Japan, Taiwan, Singapore, Hong Kong and Korea compared to neighboring China. All five of these countries have strong protectionist measures to support their successful export based economies. Recent development in China is due to similar measures.

 

[fordktpjoe]

OilPatch, you are 100% correct, and thank you, I have never ever heard that put more brilliantly!


But, my friend I fear it has fallen upon deaf ears.

Those of the closed minded individuals who would prey upon the downfall of others. Those who would wish for fellow Americans to lose jobs, automobiles, and even homes, just so these said individuals could, at the end of the day, sit back in their recliners, crack open a cold one, and say "By GOD we sure showed them, didn't we!"

"Let 'em go under!"

Well guess what? Looks like MY president, Dubya, ain't gonna let it happen, captain!

 

[Nipplechops]

What a Ignorant fool. Have you not stuck your nose in a history textbook?

You would be surprised how little your opinion of my character means to me. History is just that, history. There wasn't such a thing a a "global market" in those times. Sorry if that doesn't suit your outlook.

United States was the leading nation opposed to the "free trade" theory. President Washington called tariffs the "Second Declaration of Independence".

Are you serious? Read above, there was NO GLOBAL MARKET in Washington's time. The only free trade he would have been opposing is that between each state itself.

Do you hold Ronald Regan in high regard? How about Bush Sr.? Those two presidents were the main players along with then Canadian Prime Minister Brian Mulroney that drafted the FTA, followed by NAFTA.

Under free trade the trader is the master and the producer the slave.

According to who? You? I beg to differ. If that were the case Canada would the slave of the U.S. which we clearly are not. I admit there are some whiny socialist types that think we have been devastated by NAFTA up here, but the evidence shows the opposite.

Protection is but the law of nature, the law of self-preservation, of self-development, of securing the highest and best destiny of the race of man. It is said, that protection is immoral…. Why, if protection builds up and elevates 63,000,000 of people, the influence of those 63,000,000 of people elevates the rest of the world. We cannot take a step in the pathway of progress without benefitting mankind everywhere. Well, they say, ‘Buy where you can buy the cheapest'…. Of course, that applies to labor as to everything else. Let me give you a maxim that is a thousand times better than that, and it is the protection maxim: ‘Buy where you can pay the easiest.' And that spot of earth is where labor wins its highest rewards.

Blah blah blah blah. What? Nice plagarism there pal.

http://www.cecaust.com.au/main.asp?sub=info&id=platform/McKinley.html

I am a assembly line operator, not skill trade. I am also not union, I make more than my union SKILLED Father. I question Nipplechops arrogant remarks, what qualifications do you have Nipplechops? I got real-world experience, what do you bring to the table?

I am a dual ticket tradesman currently working on an engineering degree. I run power boilers and steam turbines in excess of 500,000HP. Does that meet your qualifications?

In addition to that I have also worked in tourism, as a welder/fabricator, oil well operator, motorcycle mechanic and machinist. All of these industries shit the bed at one time or another and I didn't have to piss and moan to some union to try and keep a job that was phasing out.

It all comes down to what the company agrees with the employees, in good time the unions can rape the company, in hard times it is not so.

The ONLY point I will agree with you on. It is just as much the fault of the CEO's as it is the greed and stupidity of the UAW.

Economic development that surpasses a country's neighbor's is always done with strong protectionist measures. Look at Japan, Taiwan, Singapore, Hong Kong and Korea compared to neighboring China. All five of these countries have strong protectionist measures to support their successful export based economies. Recent development in China is due to similar measures.

Japan's economy has been shrinking for over a decade due to shrinking population and piss poor immigration policy. And just how is Taiwan protectionist? They are now part of the WTO and the only real protectionist policy they have remaining is in the agriculture sector. Their economy is now seeing the same transition as western economies. Number one being the exportation of unskilled labour to cheaper markets. Oh and they have also been negotiating a FTA with the USA. How protectionist is that? Korea is much the same with their agricultural protectioism. They have been a member of the WTO since 1995. And I could give two shits about China.

OilPatch, you are 100% correct, and thank you, I have never ever heard that put more brilliantly!

I can plagarize too. Amazing how someone can sound so great when the use the words of another, eh?