Ford teases the new Bronco

[Jim Oaks]

So what you're saying is..... women are.... oh never mind.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

So how do they still make Jeeps?

We test drove a new Grand Cherokee back in the mid to late 90's... the thing rode like a buckboard. I suspect that is why they have been going extinct.

Even the old Bronco was IFS longer than it was a solid axle and nobody was caring about rollovers in the late 70's.

 

[Bird76Mojo]

Jeep has managed to almost carve out an exemption by using warning stickers (just like Ford) and making sure consumers know about their handling characteristics beforehand. Jeep stresses this. That they handle like no other vehicles. Insurance companies (at least in my area) charge much higher insurance for Jeep owners though. But Jeeps are also far less top heavy than the vehicles Ford was/is making. Making them less prone to rollovers.

Ford wasn't so lucky. Especially with the Bronco II. It had the highest death rate, due to rollovers, in the industry. Ford learned it's lessons the hard way. Initial lawsuits approaching nearly a billion dollars (with many more on the horizon) taught Ford all they needed to know about reducing their risk of rollovers. I suspect that this combined with trying to meet strict federal safety regs has Ford less than enthusiastic about building anything that would increase their liabilities, such as solid front axle vehicles.

Ford actually hid/destroyed documents and doctored other documents, when asked to submit them to the federal government. They knew about the extremely high rollover rate of their BII's and Explorers, as their engineers told them to widen it almost 4 inches to bring the rollover rates to within normal specifications, which would have cost $38 per vehicle, but instead Ford only widened it 4/10 of an inch. Some interesting reading from 1992-ish - https://www.nytimes.com/1992/06/15/...ts-pose-new-questions-for-ford-on-safety.html

https://www.ewg.org/research/suvs-s...ngerous-professional-test-drivers-safe-enough

As for the Grand Cherokee's my buddy has one and it rides like a Caddy. Smoother than most vehicles I've ridden in. The thing just floats down the road. My sister had a fully loaded V8 model and it rode a little rougher, but it was still very acceptable for what it was.


GB

 

[bobbywalter]

Jeep has managed to almost carve out an exemption by using warning stickers (just like Ford) and making sure consumers know about their handling characteristics beforehand. Jeep stresses this. That they handle like no other vehicles. Insurance companies (at least in my area) charge much higher insurance for Jeep owners though. But Jeeps are also far less top heavy than the vehicles Ford was/is making. Making them less prone to rollovers.

Ford wasn't so lucky. Especially with the Bronco II. It had the highest death rate, due to rollovers, in the industry. Ford learned it's lessons the hard way. Initial lawsuits approaching nearly a billion dollars (with many more on the horizon) taught Ford all they needed to know about reducing their risk of rollovers. I suspect that this combined with trying to meet strict federal safety regs has Ford less than enthusiastic about building anything that would increase their liabilities, such as solid front axle vehicles.

Ford actually hid/destroyed documents and doctored other documents, when asked to submit them to the federal government. They knew about the extremely high rollover rate of their BII's and Explorers, as their engineers told them to widen it almost 4 inches to bring the rollover rates to within normal specifications, which would have cost $38 per vehicle, but instead Ford only widened it 4/10 of an inch. Some interesting reading from 1992-ish - https://www.nytimes.com/1992/06/15/...ts-pose-new-questions-for-ford-on-safety.html

https://www.ewg.org/research/suvs-s...ngerous-professional-test-drivers-safe-enough

As for the Grand Cherokee's my buddy has one and it rides like a Caddy. Smoother than most vehicles I've ridden in. The thing just floats down the road. My sister had a fully loaded V8 model and it rode a little rougher, but it was still very acceptable for what it was.


GB

ok...between this and the last post theres some truth.


a solid axle b2 would have had a lower incidence of roll over. but did not ride as nice.

the b2 went out knowing that the propensity of the ttb to jack under certain maneuvers was going to put it on its lid. those were things hidden and muddled.


specifically...the cog in combo with the wheel base and track width....it was so close...yet so far.


solid axles....can ride well. but overall ifs/irs is really tunable to car levels.

 

[Jim Oaks]

Within the past few days, news outlets have been reporting that owners of new Jeep Wranglers have been complaining about "death wobble". Death wobble is a violent shaking in the steering wheel at highway speed. I experienced it once in my 2010 F-350 4x4 with the front straight axle. It can scare the hell out of you. Especially if you don't know what's going on.

People keep insisting that Ford is going to build a solid front axle Bronco to compete with the Jeep. I don't see it. I think there is a better chance that Jeep will someday build a Wrangler with IFS.

 

[bobbywalter]

the new jl models... death wobble is from corporate cutting way to far into structure costs.


the trac bar brackets have torn on many. this was even in pre production.




normal death wobble is from worn parts......


the super duty gets wobble and the ram hd's and older 1/2 t.....

the wheels just flop over on the gm's

 

[Bird76Mojo]

I believe it was the 2wd Bronco II's that were extremely prone to rollovers. I'd guess due to the lack of weight down low in the front end that the 4x4 components provide. Though both were really bad. The BII just had a lot of weight up high. Steel panels, steel roof, huge heavy glass windows that wrapped around the top, etc.. Compared to the Jeep having a good bit less of their weight that high up, as well as the weight of a solid axle down low to lower the center of gravity.

Maybe Ford should've thought about keeping the solid axle in some vehicles, while also giving hardcore offroad enthusiasts what they really want, like jeep did!

I suppose it's a fine line with a solid front axle. Weight down low versus worse handling characteristics..



GB

 

[rusty ol ranger]

That is the whole reason soccer moms should stick to minivans/crossovers.

What good is an "off road" vehicle that bottoms out or scrapes the fascia going over a parking curb?

All new vehicles short of 3/4ton + lack clearence IMO. My 97 F250 2wd HD has about the same at the front bumper/rockers as a FX4.

 

[bobbywalter]

the point being.


ifs is also why the b2 rolled over... ifs for the same ride height is not a gaurantee of roll over protection. superduty 250 ttb vs superduty 250 solid. or gm vs ford vs dodge....

in the same scenario with a beam...it(bronco 2) did not roll over AS OFTEN. but not enough to call it different either... more importantly, actual wheel base, track width and spring rates were what the deal was. just like the samauri. jeep. raider. fj. defender 90.

special vehicle needs driven special.

under slung leaf and wider/longer track/wheel base fixed it for the given test structure. ala explorer.

or ---- cherokee.


cherokee today is ifs/irs for ride and handling and nvh control. nvh is definitely higher with a solid axle.


but look at...of course not available here....the suzuki jimny. it has all the wrong dimensions that cause instant rollover death but the modern suspension with solid axles allows it to spank the wrangler in app/boa/dep angles.


for around town cruiser/commuter and weekend toy i would take the jimny over the ecosport any day.

and i actually was pretty impressed with the ecosport.

but the jimny is not going to be nearly as safe as the ecosport. it would be nice to see it tested here just to see how it actually fares.





i agree with jim that ford is not in a hurry to sas stuff.


but i also understand with the flexible manufacturing capacity that they have proven out with the cobra r and raptor and lightening...ect... they can easily make as low as 500-1500 units with special trail packages that have hd solid axles and 35's from the showroom.

and manual trans....rubber washout floors...and and and....

and like the senseless raptors in the non desert racing areas of the country...

they would sell.

 

[Ranger850]

Is this thread about the NEW Bronco?? or how shitty the old one was. I cant really tell.

 

[sgtsandman]

IFS is more to comply with federal safety (rollover) regs than anything else. That's really where the "need" for front IFS came from.

It comes down to liability. Even with a warning sticker on the visor, 90% of soccer moms that end up behind the wheel of a solid axle vehicle have no clue how to handle the way it drives/behaves in the event of an emergency maneuver, etc. I can't count how many women have rolled Jeeps in my area.. They just blast down the road 70mph like it's any other vehicle, not considering what would happen if they had to make a sudden swerve to avoid an obstacle.

And that's how you get a federal government that controls the vehicle market and sets nearly unattainable safety regulations.


GB

Kinda like the TPMS requirement after the whole Ford/Firestone divorce.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

As for the Grand Cherokee's my buddy has one and it rides like a Caddy. Smoother than most vehicles I've ridden in. The thing just floats down the road. My sister had a fully loaded V8 model and it rode a little rougher, but it was still very acceptable for what it was.

We all liked the Jeep but the thing rode terrible. We stayed with the '94 Explorer that rode/handled much better. The Durango (which had just came out) was very nice but also very expensive.

My parents ended up running that Explorer as a family car until 2005.

I believe it was the 2wd Bronco II's that were extremely prone to rollovers. I'd guess due to the lack of weight down low in the front end that the 4x4 components provide. Though both were really bad. The BII just had a lot of weight up high. Steel panels, steel roof, huge heavy glass windows that wrapped around the top, etc.. Compared to the Jeep having a good bit less of their weight that high up, as well as the weight of a solid axle down low to lower the center of gravity.

They also had a frame which would help with a lower CG too. Heck the engine crossmember probably weighs half of what a D30 weighs.

and like the senseless raptors in the non desert racing areas of the country...

they would sell.

You mean Raptors in Iowa are senseless?

They are a status symbol, like Jeeps are for the most part. My ol' F-150 with stock sized tires has gone farther and done more than most of the jacked up Jeeps (or Raptors) running around here...

Wife thought the Ecosport was cute, I am glad she moved on. It strikes me as a really fancy golf cart, and I don't want to be bumbling down the interstate in a stinkin' golf cart.

 

[rusty ol ranger]

Im gonna go out on a limb here but....

Id lay money that your average garden variety 80-96 TTB F150 would out wheel a raptor (unless we are talking a flat out desert run) any day. Even more of an ass whoopin handed out by anything 79 and prior.

Just like Jeeps, Keep the rubicon, no doubt in my mind a average CJ 5/7 would embarass one.

They bill the new cherokee as "the most capable midsize SUV on earth"....maybe by todays standards. A older square cherokee would stomp a mudhole in one....

Just like....im sure the new bronco will be nowhere near as offroad capable as the old ones. But itll be eaiser for susie homemaker to drive to hobby lobby in 3 inches of snow.

I could go on with this all night.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

Raptor with ground clearance, real tires, locker and terrain control would be hard to beat.

 

[bobbywalter]

Im gonna go out on a limb here but....

Id lay money that your average garden variety 80-96 TTB F150 would out wheel a raptor (unless we are talking a flat out desert run) any day. Even more of an ass whoopin handed out by anything 79 and prior.

Just like Jeeps, Keep the rubicon, no doubt in my mind a average CJ 5/7 would embarass one.

They bill the new cherokee as "the most capable midsize SUV on earth"....maybe by todays standards. A older square cherokee would stomp a mudhole in one....

Just like....im sure the new bronco will be nowhere near as offroad capable as the old ones. But itll be eaiser for susie homemaker to drive to hobby lobby in 3 inches of snow.

I could go on with this all night.

you might want to go back closer to the trunk.


the new terrain systems are insane.