Fault in start position - No start, total electrical failure

[christw]

Well, one thing after another... I just ran into a whole new issue. I had to leave my truck at the gas station because of this.

Symptoms:

-Turn the key and it sounds like the starter or relay clicked and instantly has total electrical failure. No headlights, no nothing.
-If I whacked the starter or fusebox under the hood, I could sometimes get electrical in ignition and accessory positions and my electrical seemed normal.
-Turn the key... click... same thing. It won't even crank once and no electrical until I get fiddly with the fusebox, battery, etc again.

Bump starting is unfortunately not an option where my truck is at (a nearly level lot full of ice) so I'm at a loss. Help?

 

[Earl43P]

Sounds like either a bad cable / connection or a bad starter.

Might try wiggling each cable while jump-starting from another running vehicle.

Look for bubbly distorted insulation, they tend to corrode internally. If it crackles when you bend it, it's likely trashed.


If you remove the starter for testing at an auto parts store, DISCONNECT the BATTERY first.

 

[christw]

The starter is brand new. I'll check it when I can get it home. As soon as I hit start NOTHING works, no lights, no power, no accessories... Battery voltage and dash lights won't even show. Meh maybe I've got a short or an intermittent break somewhere. Happened on my buddy's Bronco II for weeks before we found the broken power wire.

 

[Spott]

These seem to be symptoms of an ignition switch problem, except that it is resolved by thumping the fusebox, and not the steering column.

I could certainly see this occurring if you had the starter solenoid and an accessory relay fail at the same time, but the likelyhood of that is pretty low.

Start by tightening the large cables and grounds in the starting system. It may not solve the problem, but it's good practice. Also check your ignition switch connector.

If that doesn't solve it, then try this for a temporary fix: put the key in "run" and thump stuff until your accessories start working, and turn off your headlights and other heavy loads. Wear gloves, and take a piece of heavy copper wire and bridge the large lugs on the starter solenoid. If your solenoid is the problem, your truck will crank, and probably run.

If that works, then replace the solenoid, and you've solved half your problem. After that, if your accessories shut off, open the fusebox and tap relays and fuses gently with the handle of a screwdriver. If you can find a relay that reliably restores power when tapped, then replace that one, it's getting stuck.

Cold and variable temperatures can lead to condensation in connectors and relays, which can cause these sorts of problems.

Good luck!

Spott

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk

 

[Haywire6000]

My truck did the same thing, turns out the ground wire bolting to the block under the power steering pump rotted off. I would check that. One quick way to check if you cant see down there is take a set up jumper cables take one and go the the negative on the battery and connect the other end to the power steering pump or another good grounding point on the engine.

 

[RonD]

Yes check ground cables, that is often overlooked when you focus on 12volts only.
12volts is only 12volts if there is a 0volt(ground) connection, lol.

Yes reads more like an ignition switch problem.
The ignition switch is located under the steering column, it is not the key switch.
The key, when rotated slides a rod which then slides the contacts in the ignition switch under the steering column, this makes and breaks contacts according to function.
Often dash and lights will go off when switch is in START position, this allows all battery power to go to the starter, most don't notice this or think it's the starter drawing all the power causing it, but in many ignition switches unneeded systems have their power cut during cranking.

If you have power with key in ON/RUN then you can jump the solenoid or starter, using Jumper cable or if a smaller wire jump 12v to solenoid.
MAKE SURE you are in NEUTRAL!!!!!!
Jumping bypasses the no start in gear safety switch
That can get you home to do the work.


This is a typical ignition switch wiring diagram
http://www.therangerstation.com/tech_library/EDiagrams/files/Diagram_Powerdistribution_1991_3of7.JPG

You can see what has power when in RUN and when in START positions
They share the same power wire from the battery, but different things get power depending on switch setting, coil, injectors, and starter solenoid are pretty much it in START

 

[Chris_1]

"the starter is brand new" makes me suspect connections right off. More good batteries and starters get changed out because of poor connections than you can imagine. Usually it seems to solve the problem because the new unit helps to overcome the weak connection. Remove and clean, with sandpaper or emery cloth, every connection in the circuit - even, or maybe especially the grounds. That costs nothing. And if it solves the problem you know what the cause was. If it doesn't then you know that's not the problem and you can start to tear your hair out trying to chase it down. Either way, if you haven't already gone over all the electrical connections on an 18 yr old truck - it's about time. If a dirty connection isn't your problem today, it's gonna be soon. Sorry if I sound preachy but I learned this one the hard way, just trying to save you some aggravation. Your problem does sound exactly like a poor connection though. Good luck !

 

[christw]

Thanks for the suggestions everyone. I'll head back out today and see if I can get it home at the least.

 

[christw]

Well, it was the dumbest thing ever. My + battery cable was loose, hence jiggling wires helping. Apparently the the terminal is just the slightest bit elliptical and managed to slip to a looser position over time to where it was barely making contact. I tightened it up and all was well.

Thanks guys!

 

[Spott]

Great to hear it. If only all of life's problems could be found and fixed so easily, we'd be in great shape.

If you're still in the electrical mood, now would be a good time to get some dielectric grease and apply it to your battery terminals, large lugs, and grounds. It will help reduce annoying electrical problems in the future.

Spott