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Failing fuel injectors - E85 to blame?


I dont remember if the coil in bosch injectors is usually submerged in fuel or not. If it is, I could see fuel eventually eating the insulation.

Either way, there is small amounts of movement in solenoid coils from mechanical load and vibration....that could fracture them or strip the insulation off of them over time.


Incidentally, when a cylinder is dead, the engine works harder, and the engine will get more fuel despite the O2 sensors, through the adaptive nature of the computer.

There are no EFI injectors (Bosch, Lucas, Nippon, etc.) that have fuel contacting the coil.
 
So I've been reading on the internet and now I'm dangerous. Let's say there's varnish in the system of the truck. Now lets say that the E85 ate it off the walls and deposited it in my 1-2 year old fuel filter and and my fuel pressure is too low... and let's say I've got one or two injectors that are clogged up... the computer's response would be to open up the pulse width to allow enough fuel in to get rid of the extra O2 being sensed by the O2 sensor, which means that the injectors are working harder (and I've got 4 cylinders running rich). The injectors staying open (meaning they're running hotter) to make up for the bad ones and also to make up for the low fuel pressure are failing prematurely because of all the heat. Plus they're working extra hard by allowing more 25% more fuel in since I'm burning the E85. Does this sound plausible?

Maybe the E85 would completely dissolve any varnish and has totally cleaned up the entire fuel system and the above it totally wrong...

Plus there's no sign of low fuel pressure (no miss at higher rpm under load)...

Also, I like Bob's thing about the truck mods...

The PCM would never hold the injectors open (DC on the coil). There is a MAX duty cycle to keep the coils from going into saturation.
 
The PCM would never hold the injectors open (DC on the coil). There is a MAX duty cycle to keep the coils from going into saturation.

UNLESS there's a problem with the drivers staying almost always on....which would probably burn out the injector coils. I doubt the coils could sustain almost an amp nonstop....the coils are just bell wire, already subjected to a few hundred degrees.

And you can't say the PCM would throw a code....they don't always as they can't necessarily always tell when they themselves are bad. It's much more likely just defective injectors, but not guaranteed.
 
UNLESS there's a problem with the drivers staying almost always on....which would probably burn out the injector coils. I doubt the coils could sustain almost an amp nonstop....the coils are just bell wire, already subjected to a few hundred degrees.

And you can't say the PCM would throw a code....they don't always as they can't necessarily always tell when they themselves are bad. It's much more likely just defective injectors, but not guaranteed.

If that happened, you would probably hydrolock the engine with gas. The PCM does not sense if individual injectors are working properly, but the camshaft position sensor should pick up a misfire for the cylinder that was affected by the bad injector.
 
You guys rock.

By the way, my fuel economy is unchanged...

I talked to the dealer this morning at length and both service writers said it was probably an unbelievable coincidence.
 
I was driving to work yesterday and pulled up at the light to a 3.0L windstar. When he took off it was put put put put.....

It seems he had bad injectors as well. WTF is up with those things?


Is it PLANNED OBSOLESCENCE???

:icon_rofl: :icon_rofl: :icon_rofl:
 
Another bad injector

Three down, three to go...

I just lost injector #2 (which is the third I've had fail). Like the other two, it failed electrically (down on ohms). Any more ideas?
 
Tim

I worked with wire enamels for a while. Given that these injectors are all failing at the same time, (1999 to current give or take a month) I would say the life of the enamel has expired. We used to test our enamels for many different qualities, heat resistance and flux resistance were two of the major qualities. Once the flux capacity of the enamel is reached it breaks down, which could potentially cause arching in the windings or shorting in the windings.

I would wager if you left the older injectors in, they will successively fail just as the other three have. I know it sounds expensive, but replace the other three and save the headache.

Rob
 
That's a good thought. If I have another one fail I'll do the other remaining two. The only thing is that of course many people have Rangers with more miles/age than mine and have never had any problem (unless of course I got a bad batch...). Thanks for your input.
 
Tim, did you buy the truck new? If not, I'm wondering if earlier in the truck's life if it had a PCM failure, causing the injector coil drivers to stay on, which over-stressed all of the injectors. Just a thought........
 
I purchased it from my father at 33k...never had a pcm failure. Thanks.
 
injectors can fail in 100 miles of being built. mechanical parts do fail often and the varnish would most likely just plug your filter before it made it thru the injectors creating low fuel pressure for all cylinders. There is a high chance its just faulty injectors and or a electrical problem with the ecu or harness. After a quick searchi found that your problem is a common problem http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/293091-1999-ranger-3-0-v6-pinging-injectors.html his problem started at 82 k also on the same #5 cyl
 
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turbo - the enamel I am referring to is what is used to coat the wire used to make the windings inside the injectors. I have seen issues where poor surface quality will cause coating to "leak" voltage and flux potentials. This is what destroys the windings, not any exposure to solvents. This type of failure would account for low ohm readings for the respected injector. A lac plugging of the pintle would be an entirely different mode of failure.


And yes, I agree, even new parts can crap out quickly....... :pissedoff: :pissedoff:
 
Tim, just before the injectors fail, do you hear the theme music from 'The Twilight Zone'?... just kidding...

Seriously though, are you still burning E85, or was that just a one tank experiment?
 
I used E85 from the beginning of May until Mid August.

I called the gas station and they said there'd been no problem (except for new flex fuel GM vehicles whose computers weren't programmed for the E85 and were having check engine lights come on). They sent me a $25 dollar gift card.
 

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