Engineers: Old vs new engine tech

[Snoranger]

but only like 5% of the population actually understands anything...

Proof:

 

[bobbywalter]

something else I find curious and seemingly consistent. The worse the power per cubic inch ratio is, the better the exhaust note. An old 351 with a hole in the muffler makes a lovely racket. Even my Lima with an exhaust leak somewhere isn’t entirely unpleasant. 10 times better than any modern 4 banger. Modern v8s just don’t sound nice without a moderately tuned exhaust

Well. I prefer the noise of a properly built 340 over anything....which..is 60s tech at first glance....but. not when I get done with it



But the LS platform....and the hemi.

Naaa..your reaching into a hornets nest.

I will be digging the hole

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

I was going to say at least the mopars still have some of the beautiful sloppiness that gave the old school engines charactor.

 

[bobbywalter]

Part of what you just mentioned is the parasitic loss of more reciprocating components...

At work we make a compressor engine that is an 8L V8 that half the engine is a compressor driven by the other half with nothing connected to the back... someone involved with the project talked to someone at CARB and apparently they didn't think it was an engine since nothing was driven by the flywheel, hence it didn't need to be certified... so there's that, things are being controlled by brilliant people...

torque sells trucks, but only like 5% of the population actually understands anything...

I used odd fire v8 to run air guns to nipple up blow out preventers when I was younger.....way cheaper then a screw

 

[scotts90ranger]

This compressor engine is a bit different in that it's a 4 stage CNG compressor

I have the 302 version of the old Grimmer Schmidt or whatever air compressors by the garage, need to get that running one of these days...

 

[rusty ol ranger]

No ..torque does not win races...unless they are trains

Even then....depends.


Everybody knows 460 cubes...especially in big block architecture usually will have good low end.

The questions raised in the op...

350 ft lb at 2500.... is typical of a 460...at the crank ...and 175 is hp. Which is awesome.

The 3.5eb has that at the wheel...
Which is ridiculously awesome.


It's embarrassing.

The 95-97 460 was 410@2200.

Even a 79 was making like 365.

Slap twin turbos on a 460 and that EB would be dead.

 

[rusty ol ranger]

Torque sells trucks.
When driven miserly without load...

Low end torque is what matters most when loaded heavy.

My pete makes 475hp. But 1,850ftlb@1200 rpm. There are gas engines making that hp, but no where near the torque....so why dont peterbilt end their cummins contract and just put in a EB?

Im sorry dude but HP does very little untill youre already at 65 withe the cruise set, and even then torque is important.

 

[Eddo Rogue]

I would say its the advancement of engine components and engine management (tuning), which allowed for the advancement of forced induction (blowers and turbos). Modern engines usually have more valves, cams, compression etc....and no pushrods or lifters etc to deal with... which allows for more power without compromising reliability/ driveability. Parts are made of better materials to tighter tolerances. Racers still use pushrod V8 blocks of their respective manufacturer, it just made of more modern materials and components. Also fuel injection and tuning allows for way more combustion control.

1000hp these days is like 500hp 20 years ago. Your average 1000hp engine is pretty much a V8 blown to hell, with components and tuning that can handle, and make good use of, all that boost.

Watching the street racing shows its amazing what they do with tuning. The 1000+ engine can be tuned for a 400hp launch, then variate the power throughout the rpm range based on track conditions. They tune it to what they think will make the tires stick the whole time, and usually the better tune wins the race.

Having said that, I could answer your question in two words: Pro Charger.

 

[Chapap]

Low end torque is what matters most when loaded heavy.

My pete makes 475hp. But 1,850ftlb@1200 rpm. There are gas engines making that hp, but no where near the torque....so why dont peterbilt end their cummins contract and just put in a EB?

Im sorry dude but HP does very little untill youre already at 65 withe the cruise set, and even then torque is important.

On paper, the wheels don’t care about rpm and tq numbers. Ignoring allot of real world factors, you can swap a Peterbuilt and corvette engine, put in different gearing, and you get similar results.

do boats and planes care about torque, hp, rpm relationships? Seems like they just design it so the consumer gets a “how much ‘go’ do you want” lever.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

On paper, the wheels don’t care about rpm and tq numbers. Ignoring allot of real world factors, you can swap a Peterbuilt and corvette engine, put in different gearing, and you get similar results.

do boats and planes care about torque, hp, rpm relationships? Seems like they just design it so the consumer gets a “how much ‘go’ do you want” lever.

Lots of torque in airplanes isn't really super great. Ground looping is fun for nobody.

The torque from the old rotories with spinning engines did weird things to airplane handling too.

 

[Chapap]

Lots of torque in airplanes isn't really super great. Ground looping is fun for nobody.

The torque from the old rotories with spinning engines did weird things to airplane handling too.

I recall a WWII story from somewhere. New pilots had a tendency to run off the side of the runway cause whatever fighter had so much torque.

 

[rusty ol ranger]

On paper, the wheels don’t care about rpm and tq numbers. Ignoring allot of real world factors, you can swap a Peterbuilt and corvette engine, put in different gearing, and you get similar results.

do boats and planes care about torque, hp, rpm relationships? Seems like they just design it so the consumer gets a “how much ‘go’ do you want” lever.

If HP is what matters then they should be compared with the same gearing.

Torque isnt important right?

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

I recall a WWII story from somewhere. New pilots had a tendency to run off the side of the runway cause whatever fighter had so much torque.

Hard to hold 2000 hp with three wheels, even without using high blower or water injection.

 

[Chapap]

If HP is what matters then they should be compared with the same gearing.

Torque isnt important right?

Well not for that comment. I was saying the trans output can be the same between the two.

 

[Blmpkn]

something else I find curious and seemingly consistent. The worse the power per cubic inch ratio is, the better the exhaust note. An old 351 with a hole in the muffler makes a lovely racket. Even my Lima with an exhaust leak somewhere isn’t entirely unpleasant. 10 times better than any modern 4 banger. Modern v8s just don’t sound nice without a moderately tuned exhaust

If you like the sound a tractor makes, sure.

I'm of the opinion that a high hp/low cube motor sounds infinitely more interesting than a low hp/big cube motor.

I'd much rather listen to an f1 car than the burble of a 150hp 454.

Lots of other factors come in to play with exhaust note though...

Headers sound better than manifolds. Higher compression sounds better than lower compression. A flat plane crank sounds way wilder than a cross plane crank could ever dream of. True duals vs x-pipe vs h-pipe. Length of exhaust. How many bends the exhaust has.. a boggling amount of factors really.