Engine separator plate suitability 4.9l/300 and 5.0l/302w with M5R2

[corerftech]

Update: the principal differences in the starters appears, after reviewing 360’ pictures of each, is wiring and size of the total starter package. The noses appear to be the same from a picture of course, which may mean that the separator plate won’t know the difference. It appears if an 88 F150 4.9 only differs in flywheel balance weight (flywheel/clutch) then perhaps the 1988 separator plate is interchangeable fully between I6 and V8. As long as the end of the crankshaft has the right parts hanging from it, then they marry??


Continue———

original post:
Another poster has brought up a timely concern of mine.
I have a 2001 explorer 5.0 that sits next to a 1998 F150 M5R2 manual (formerly a 4.2 V6 piece). They marry fine.

They will be coupled together, God willing, in the next few weeks and dry fit.

I have not procured an engine separator plate yet, no the 164T flywheel, or starter.

I know I need to go ALL F150 with everything, for a given year. So in my case, a 1993 F150 clutch/FW etc.
The engine plate is concerning with others that have expressed issues with fitment.
I have found an OE 1988 F150, 4.9l I6 still in truck complete. The 4.9 and 5.0 share bolt pattern, no issue there.
In using Rock Auto as a data source, there is a model 117 FW for I6 engine, a 167 FW for 5.0/50ounce. That is the difference, both are 164T. The starters though change dramatically hence the change in engine separator plate.

The 1988 donor uses a vastly different starter than the 1993-1996 F150/5.0

My concern or question: 1988 4.9l/300 M5R2 combo, will/should the engine separator plate be suitable, since the starter motor is the SAME for the 1988 5.0l/302 M5R2 ???

Some year after 1988, ford changed starters for both the 300 and 302. Of starter changed then likely separator changed. My intentions are to use late model 1993-96 F150 parts for the 5.0 clutch/FW and starter but I am having trouble finding an OE late model separator plate!! The 88 is the only one I could turn up!!

This is a starter/separator plate marriage concern only- between early years 1988 and late years 93-96 as pertains to ranger v8 swap.
Thank you in advance.

added/
Pending resolution or an answer, I may have found a donor (1988) for a starter and separator and bellhousing bolt set all in one. Perhaps I just procure all 1988 f150 parts for the end of the crank —— and maybe it will all play fine???

 

[corerftech]

Following up on my own post:
A call to a compliant ford dealer helped, there are few dealers willing to give an obsolete part number over phone from a microfiche type search.

D2TZ-7007-A
Separator plate


This is a part that according to “fordpartsgiant” fitment filter, will fit both the 4.9 and 5.0 engines coupled to the M5R2, specifically 1988 and a few years before.

Therefore from that data (which is consistent with the Landers Ford parts Dept part number and usage) I am concluding that it is interchangeable on or before 1988 model years. It’s not forward compatible.

That does now put me in a position of using ONLY 1988 or earlier 5.0l flywheel, clutch and starter as the starter changes after 1988.

Interesting though is 1989 F150, either engine searched, starter is same as 88 but the separator plate is no longer compatible per “parts giant” application filters. Head scratcher. Seems like nothing changed in 1989 but…… plate no longer fits.

 

[Josh B]

I cannot see how nothing changed can prohibit the same part from fitting, or maybe you have crossed into the twilight zone

 

[corerftech]

Thank you!
I needed the reinforcement of common sense from another human.

1989, same flywheel, clutch, t/o device, trans part number, engine(s), starters……. But the 1988 shows non fitment! Twilight Zone for sure.

 

[2Krngr]

The only difference in block plates is the starter position. Which is to accommodate the size of the flywheel, 164t vs 157t...

You can see in the link that this universal block plate has a knock-out to move the starter over to fit a 164t.

Automatic and Manual starters are different, as the nose engagement depths are different. So make sure it's actually a Manual starter for a 164t F150, used with a block plate that has the starter on the outer position.

JEGS 60940: Multi-Fit Block Plate Ford 289-302-351W - JEGS

transmission inspection plate, ford aod inspection plate, ford aod transmission inspection plate, t5 inspection cover, ford manual transmission inspec

www.jegs.com

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

The only difference in block plates is the starter position. Which is to accommodate the size of the flywheel, 164t vs 157t...

You can see in the link that this universal block plate has a knock-out to move the starter over to fit a 164t.

Automatic and Manual starters are different, as the nose engagement depths are different. So make sure it's actually a Manual starter for a 164t F150, used with a block plate that has the starter on the outer position.

JEGS 60940: Multi-Fit Block Plate Ford 289-302-351W - JEGS

transmission inspection plate, ford aod inspection plate, ford aod transmission inspection plate, t5 inspection cover, ford manual transmission inspec

www.jegs.com

View attachment 84658

BUT the 164T FLYWHEEL is a different depth than the 164T FLEXPLATE.

They made the holes slightly different sizes in the serperator plate to prevent accidental mixmatches.

 

[2Krngr]

BUT the 164T FLYWHEEL is a different depth than the 164T FLEXPLATE.

They made the holes slightly different sizes in the separator plate to prevent accidental mixmatches.

Yes the depth of the teeth location is different in a manual flywheel vs an automatic flexplate, and that is the reason they take two different starters.

The two hole positions on the backplate are just to match the diameter of the flywheel or flexplate. And the starters are different depths to match either manual or auto (engagement / tooth depth).

Auto Starter = Long nose
Manual Starter = Short nose

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

Yes the depth of the teeth location is different in a manual flywheel vs an automatic flexplate, and that is the reason they take two different starters.

The two hole positions on the backplate are just to match the diameter of the flywheel or flexplate. And the starters are different depths to match either manual or auto (engagement / tooth depth).

Auto Starter = Long nose
Manual Starter = Short nose

Ford also played with the hole diameter on the manuals because some trans use different depths depending on engine.

My 4.2 M5OD originally was a different depth than the 5.0 setup so I had to modify the starter hole so the correct starter would fit.

I couldn't find anybody making a plate for a 164t manual transmission a the time so rather than pull one at a JY and pull my truck back apart (because who test fits their starter before you install the seperator plate?) I carefully modified mine to work with a dremel.

SBF Engine Seperator Plates

The whole thing came about when I tried to reuse the 4.2 seperator plate I got with my M5ODR2 with a '96 302 starter. The starter hole was just barely too small. The plate from my C5 was identical but didn't have a neat little foam seal around the crank. Faced with the rather terrifying...

www.therangerstation.com