E85 conversion

[fixizin]

Gads, even well into Century #21, the Puritans reach out to nab the "demon spirits" of the distillery... can't even imagine telling fed.gov I was making my own fuel, even if it was a postcard size application and they sent me $50 for filling it out... I'd still be bothered by the fact that I was justifying the overpaid job of Yet Another UNnecessary bureaucrat... course if your still ever goes ka-BOOM, could be some 'splainin' to do... lol.

PS: What feedstock will you distill into ethanol? What fuel will fire the still? What will be the $/gal at your small scale?

 

[evanesce69]

I love your sarcasm....


anything i can get my hands on. anything sweet, I was thinking of going to the cop shop and taking their donuts, but then who would report to the scene of my still explosion.....


Some may call me a nonconformist, i like to think of myself as a free thinker.....

 

[evanesce69]

well, I suppose i have to say this, i was mistaken earlier when I thought that a stoich mix was not as important as heats of combustion. Upon further review, it has become clear that both are equally important, So Rocket, I must apologize, I was mistaken.

When we get a stoich mix, we actually pack more EtOH into the cylinder. Though the heat of combustion is lower with ethanol, we still create a greater amount of heat to convert because of the increased alcohol content. When the compression is raised to say 12:1, we actually get a more efficient "burn" and equal or greater economy with EtOH when compared to regular gasoline. From what i have read, we can actually see improvements of 8-10% over standard E10 fuel. The only draw back is this it would be a dedicated E85+ engine. It would be incompatible with regular blends of pump fuel. For most this may be a problem, but for an increasing number of owners this solution would be viable. E85 is a fuel of the present. It will not be phased out in the relative future. We are poised of the edge of the alcohol era. Those of us to get an early start will be thankful of the fact.

How ironic for a country who once outlawed its uses to endorse forthward ethanol.

 

[fixizin]

Prohibition was actually a CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT, and made us the laughingstock of the (non-Muslim) world...then, as soon as it got rolled back, there was PRIVATE GOLD CONFISCATION courtesy of RedDR... the implications for sheeple control scare me to this day.

Can anyone verify that the physical reason ethanol is so much more viable in Brazil than USA is that Brazil has massive ag areas in the strong sun equatorial zone, amenable to high-yield sugar cane, whereas USA has only limited parts of the Florida peninsula for same? Obviously the limited E returns of corn make it a non-starter... discuss.

Ev69, I don't in any way want to impede the momentum of your ambitious project, and the many real world lessons that will distill out of it (arr, arr, arr), but I'm gonna be curious as to what the spreadsheet says the $/gal. are after the fact... OTOH, $4/gal. petrol opens up ALL KINDS of avenues, and lots of "room" to play... now if you can just find some nearby factory that produces lots of waste corn syrup...

You gotta hand it to Brazil for starting the EtOH push back in the 70s, and seeing it through, to where they are now a net EXPORTER of ethanol... oh, don't worry, Big Oil has made sure YOU can't buy any Brazilian fuel here in the USA... can't have that.

 

[fixizin]

Pretty interesting about the compression ratios. I'm sure someone at Honda R&D can fix you up with a variable-geometry HEAD... that would rock.

 

[evanesce69]

i'll have to track the costs for u fixizin.....

I have some primary figures, but much too early in the project to release.

 

[evanesce69]

ok, well just a quick update:

heads are decided upon: 47cc FFV castings
Head Gasket: dead soft copper cut to factory specs with sealant on water passages
Pistons: still working on, researching aluminum welding techniques for dome buildup
Crank: stroker (though not on the prototype engine)


Each of these treatments will effectively increase compression ratio. When i reach 12.5+:1 then i will work on the fuel related side

injectors, timing, yadda yadda yadda...


stay tune to the what is becoming more work than fun

I'm getting a headache from all this....

but i'm still gonna do it!

 

[oldbaldy454]

Yep, if its make your own and its free, then why not burn it?

I read somewhere that to get max performance with E85 requires a 15:1 compression ratio, much like what a diesel engine has....SAAB or one of those overseas mfg is coming out with a bio-diesel engine in 2010 that will burn Ethanol with good results.

Recently I have taken my off road tires off and went to some street 225 60 16s and I am going to try a tank of E85 now as it may improve the mpg with 20-25% less power to run the smaller tires..the 3.0 revs good at 3000 rpm and hums at about 70 mph (corrected mph with GPS readout) ....someone said that you can get the best mpg with the 3.0 at 3000 rpm, so I will soon see how it does...

fun reading your blogging.
Keep trying !!!

 

[evanesce69]

thanks old baldy

I've enjoyed reading many other threads here in TRSF as well. I've gained alot of information reading other members woes. I've been on vacation the last 2 weeks and work has slowed a bit. My project at work is going into the production phase, which will require an entirely new set of data to be compiled. Nothing ever goes from lab scale to plant scale nicely. So in the next two weeks things are going to pick up. At that point I intend to get the parts rounded up and prepped for assembly. I am going to go junkyarding later this day for parts.

Rob

 

[WhiteBroncoII2WD]

thanks old baldy

I've enjoyed reading many other threads here in TRSF as well. I've gained alot of information reading other members woes. I've been on vacation the last 2 weeks and work has slowed a bit. My project at work is going into the production phase, which will require an entirely new set of data to be compiled. Nothing ever goes from lab scale to plant scale nicely. So in the next two weeks things are going to pick up. At that point I intend to get the parts rounded up and prepped for assembly. I am going to go junkyarding later this day for parts.

Rob

Very Interesting project, my wife and I recently undertook a similar project for our truck's 2.9 Liter. Are you still going to be using the stock EEC-IV?

 

[evanesce69]

WhiteBroncoII

yes and no

I've read many articles on reprogramming the EEC-IV. I'm not an expert, but i believe i can change the tables stored in the "box" to reflect the changes I will be making. i.e. Stoich values, injector sizes, advance timing and wot fuel mapping. I have plans on how to build a "piggyback" for the J3 test port along with the software needed to operate it.

useful link

***important afterthought: Make sure you do not try to reprogram your current ECM unless you have a backup plan.

 

[evanesce69]

UPDATE!

well I now know e85 is not good for standard exhaust valves.. but i have learned a lot through these last 3 years, 3 heads and a crap load of work... the next motor will be spot on.

more to come in the next few days....

 

[evanesce69]

basic engine specs...

-2003 block with extra ribbing
-0.030 copper headgaskets
-2003 ffv heads, 47cc shaved 0.020
-stellite exhaust valves and seats...
-block decked, pistons 0.010 proud "O" ringed
-pistons 2003 ffv domed

~compression in the 11.3 range


I'll post the details later, going to carpet a hallway/stairway for a friend in an hour...

 

[evanesce69]

photos



Additional photos...

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z53/evanesce69/024.jpg
http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z53/evanesce69/100_1208.jpg
http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z53/evanesce69/019.jpg
http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z53/evanesce69/025.jpg
http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z53/evanesce69/007.jpg

 

[disciplerocks]

1. You need the Pro Racer Package from SCT. More control of the settings you need to flash your ECU.

2. You can run E85 very safely on any EFI vehicle if you tune it CORRECTLY for around 30% more fuel.

3. If you are not tuning the fuel at each throttle position at all RPMs, then you are not tuning correctly. You also need to be careful when advancing the timing with E85.

4. Know when the winter blends hit your area. It is different for each state. The percentage of ethanol is much less in winter due to hard cold starting. If you tune on winter E85, then fill it up after they have switched to summer.....BOOM.

5. E85 will NOT do a damn thing to a stock motor other than make you feel better about not buying foreign oil.

/rant


Sorry, but I just wanted to lay some info out there for the idiots that think they can just swap injectors, fill it with E85 and suddenly have 50+ more hp. I respect you for the experimenting you did 3 years ago. There was not much info back then, and I see you paid the price for it.