Dropped 98-11 RBV frame for a project?

[BlueRoo64]

Good morning all, long time lurker and former member (couldn't find my old login information)...

Anyhow, I've searched the forum and the web to no avail so I figured it was time to take the plunge and make a post.

Looking at using a 98-11 Ranger frame for an awd project but in stock form they're too high for my aim and torsion key adjustment alone will not get me low enough.

Here's the basic rundown:
- 98 to 11 Ranger subercab frame with roughly 10" cut out of wheelbase. Yes I know that will wind up being shorter in wheelbase than the standard cab long bed but cutting that roughly 10" of wheelbase out of the supercab will be more workable to get me to my desired 115.5" wheelbase plus the donors are more readily available.
-For drivetrain I'm looking at a 302/M5ODR2/BW4410 combo...still trying to verify compatibility but that's for later.

Now, I know there's the 2wd coil spring suspension, the 2wd torsion and the 4wd torsion.

Can the DJM 4/5 drop control arms be used with the torsion bar delete/coilover conversion or do I need to find another route?

 

[lil_Blue_Ford]

No, the DJM arms are for coil spring which uses a shorter upper arm than the 4x4 and lowering a 4x4 even to max on the torsion bar makes the 4x4 upper arms too short. Plus the upper ball joint is not compatible with the 4x4 knuckles.

Both myself and @JoshT are in this boat. Both of us are trying to work with the torsion bar for now because funds are limited so coilover is not an option. Two companies (Michigan Metal Works and Illusive Fabrication) supposedly were going to produce some again but so far have not come through. I've been meaning to bug them, you probably should too. The only other option is to build your own arms.

I pulled the front bump stops and lowered my T-bars all the way on my green 00. The upper ball joint looks to be about maxed out and my camber is way off because the upper arm is too short. I'm not sure where the next limit will be, but axle shaft, tie rods, and lower ball joint all may become a factor at some point. Lower ball joint wouldn't be too hard to adjust with a cut and weld on the lower arm. I've also rubbed the plastic fender liner in the front already.

Supposedly 08-11 T-bar keys will allow for more drop because those trucks sat lower from the factory. I have a set of those keys from a junkyard truck but I haven't made that switch yet because my upper arms are the problem right now. Currently the truck is apart for a bunch of work so I'll be experimenting with that all shortly. If I can't come up with upper arms I'll have to manufacture my own.

I lowered the rear using Explorer leaf pack plus two leafs and did the Explorer rear axle in spring under. That put me into frame notch territory so I added extended shackles. I'm still pretty close to frame notch, going to try some pancake bump stops or air bumps or something. My build thread is on here somewhere for it all and I have a bunch of stuff on my YouTube.

Local exhaust shop hated me for lowering it and wanting true duals with 2.5" pipe. I did a Magnaflow crossover muffler to eliminate the need for an X or H pipe.

I kept the full wheelbase and bed because the truck will be used as a truck still. I'm trying for a practical lowering, not a frame dragger. I have a set of 18" Explorer rims to go on but I need wheel spacers to make them fit right and the plan is to run 27-29" tires.

99-01 Explorer with the 5.0 is the ideal donor for the motor and engine wiring. The front accessory drive was shortened and some other tweaks made to get it to fit better in the engine bay which is conveniently the same size as the Ranger engine bay. You will want headers but be prepared to wait because Torque Monster is about the only place to get any and he's always way behind on getting them manufactured and sent out. Otherwise you have to try to get some janky OBX headers or find used. None of the standard header options for a 5.0 will clear the front driveshaft for 4x4/AWD. I used the TM headers on my build along with the rest of the Explorer drivetrain. Currently doing a TransGo Stage 2 shift kit in the 4R70w automatic trans. I think Josh did or is doing the Jmod in his. When I get to fixing dad's Ranger I'm going to do the Jmod in his.

 

[JoshT]

I'll have to remember to come back and actually read the thread when I get a moment. I just saw @lil_Blue_Ford's mention and first paragraph or two. Here's what I've got on that, I'll read and comment on the rest later.

I've given up on both MMW and IFD. Both made in the past, but not currently.

MMW said that he can, but ghosted me when we had difficulties with invoicing. That was maybe a year ago and the interaction bothered me enough that I haven't tried again, but I haven't seen any negative about them online so maybe try.

IFD had been leading people on for years saying he's going to make them. Then keeps making excuses about moving shop or new equipment, or etc. Maybe he will someday, I'm not waiting on him though.

Recently Rick's Rangers has announced that he plans to make upper arms for these trucks. Said that he will be doing both coil spring and torsion bar. Posted something on Facebook a few weeks ago shooting piles of components for them IIRC. Don't know current status, haven't paid much attention since Dad went into the hospital in June. Looks like I'm inheriting his '21 F-150 4x4 and I'm not sure how that is going to affect the rest of the fleet.

 

[JoshT]

Ok I've read the thread. My previous post covers most of my reply as far as the Ranger itself is concerned. He's steering you right on the rear suspension too.

I'm going to take WAG here. You are wanting to build an AWD 1964 Fairlane 500 by dropping the car onto a shortened Ranger frame, and you don't want the 4wd ride height.

I think that would be a good route to consider if you were wanting to build it as a 4x4 offroad car. If that were the goal, I wouldn't be looking at the AWD transfer case.

Since you're asking about lowering the Ranger, it sounds like you are aiming for stock Fairlane height or lowered. I'm pretty sure that even using a 2wd coil spring Ranger, which can lay frame relatively easily, would result in a car higher than what you want. Due to the shape of the frame the body of the car is going to very obviously sit on top of it. <<Ok... That doesn't even make sense as an issue in writing, but it does in my head.>> I think to even come close to looking right on a 2wd coil spring Ranger frame, you'll find that you need to channel the body to drop it down over the frame properly. A 4x4 frame isn't even going to be able to get as low as a 2wd, because of the crossmember and stuff hang down lower on the 4wd. That's if you can get low enough for those to be come an issue before the front axle shafts start hitting the frame, max out angle, or running into the hard limits of lower control arm to frame clearance.

Finally, if that is your plan, I would assume that you are doing V8 and AWD for the performance aspect. Putting power to front and rear is definitely a game changer. I'm not sure that you will get the results you are hoping for. For starters I don't think that the M5OD is a good choice for sporty performance driving. It is designed to be a truck transmission and they tend to be a bit on the clunky side, and possibly not optimally geared for your usage. A better shifting transmission would go a long way, but I don;t know what I could recommend that would have those qualities and still be compatible with a transfer case. Maybe someone makes adapters for some car transmission?

Also I'm not sure about the power of a 302 pushing an AWD. I haven't exactly bee overwhelmed by the performance of my warmed up 302 pushing my AWD Ranger through a 4R70W and the 4410's predecessor AWD box. Someday I should probably put it on a dyno to figure out exactly what the engine is putting out. It could just be that the transmission needs to be rebuilt and/or a shift kit installed, or that my tire size and gearing isn't optimized for my desired usage. I suspect that it has a lot to do with the torque division through the AWD transfer case, namely that there isn;t enough of it available in the first place. I suspect that a stroker kit, a 351w, or better a 351 based stroker would have a lot more of the performance I was looking for. That isn't going to happen on this truck though. Well a 331 or 347 might when/if I ever need to rebuild the engine again, but not a 351. The tall deck windsor would fit a lot better into the Fairlane's engine bay.

 

[bobbywalter]

i would consider the use of a trailblazer ss platform. the ls is a beast...and so is the atlas. its a decent platform but ... well its still a truck. but the front axle being integrated with the oil pan its easier to get lower.

or...if you are a ford purist the late panther chassis and replicate similar to this...modding the panther front hubs to take shafts is pretty simple.






the g35 front diff definitely is workable.

panther arms.

base

panther front hub

explorer hub

you would have to use the normal base as a jig to fab the drive setup in....but it is very doable for the situation you intand....




i watched this link below from the second video. its how i figured out the way to use a t56magnum or tr6060 and a dodge magnum case and a trailblazer front setup inverted or the g35 infiniti front awd setup to make our 350 Z awd....its already a 5.3 cd009 combo....and this is via a t56 bell and slave system and centerforce clutch.

of course, i just cant bring myself to spend that sort of money...but i digress.

 

[lil_Blue_Ford]

I’m gonna probably run through the list of companies that have produced or said they would produce lowering arms and shake the tree a bit. I was really excited for something from Rickz Rangers but all I’ve seen so far is DJM upper arms for a 2wd. Of course, I had to go to DJM to find that out because Rickz wasn’t specific. I’m probably going to take another look at making my own, I just need someone to machine the ball joint cups… and figure out how best to build them.

 

[JoshT]

I’m gonna probably run through the list of companies that have produced or said they would produce lowering arms and shake the tree a bit. I was really excited for something from Rickz Rangers but all I’ve seen so far is DJM upper arms for a 2wd. Of course, I had to go to DJM to find that out because Rickz wasn’t specific. I’m probably going to take another look at making my own, I just need someone to machine the ball joint cups… and figure out how best to build them.

He's got coil arms available for preorder on his site now. He seems to be posting updates about what he's working on pretty regularly on his facebook page.

Someone asked about when the T-bar uppers would be available in a post about a week ago and he said "no idea. I gotta get these ready to go before I can focus on the next one"

Sounds like the are in the plans, but no set time frame. He's one guy workin gon this stuff, not a big company with a bunch of employees.

I'm up in the air on what is going to happen with the Ranger, but still intend to get a set when/if he produces them.

Ranger might be V8 swapped, but as a sport truck is ain't got shit on that stock 2.7L in sport mode. Also that 2.7L is currently showing 21mpg average for my driving, I couldn't hope to get that with my foot in the Ranger. If my goal is a sport truck the F-150 is the better fit, but I'd like to change a few things on it. For one I don't like the fit of the stock tire size to the wheel well. It will never be offroaded. Dirt roads and into a hunting camp or something, but not really offroading. I don't want to install taller tires that will mess up performance, MPG, or towing capacity. The do make small lowering kits for it that would close up that gap and not have a major effect on how I intend to use it. Need to see how that would affect towing with intended loads. Also got to think really hard if I want to do that.

If I go that route on the F-150, the Ranger is probably getting a lift kit, 33, and 4wd transfer case. I am definitely planning to keep both, just not sure which direction it is going. Not a decision I'm going to make this year, but if arms come available I'll get a set for when I do decide.