cutting through BS withauto trans "mechanics"

[Denisefwd93]

One of the big reasons I hate automatic transmissions is the mechanics, shops and the condescending attitude many if not all have. This is also an area where I have very little knowledge. The knowledge I do have is probably enough to get me in trouble and cost me more money than the typical average person off the street.

So what I need to do is get someone to look at this transmission give me an honest answer before I start towards a manual changeover.

93 XLT 4.0 4X4 ALD
Symptoms are:
Undetermined shudder 35- 75 mph. still hoping it's a u-joint. But truck is driveable
5-10 second or longer pause when waiting to go into reverse although reverse does work.
2nd gear used to slam before we changed the modulator now it seems to spin briefly and catch when accelerating. It does shift normally when driving with light gas pedal.
Occasional slam into first gear when coasting downhill or waiting at a traffic light
No leaks, fluid seems OK, the shop wants to machine a flush.

Can it be "saved?"
We all know the feeling we get when talking to "God" lol

Please advise on how to talk to they that do not hear? Lol thanks!
The only answer I ever get is " We can rebuild it or you for X amount of dollars, at which point I say to them; "Well if you don't know how to fix transmissions, I'll find someone else" and walk away or hang up.

 

[redhurricane]

Transmissions have many critical tolerances and moving parts. when one part starts to wear, other parts are also part of that wear. Once you have metal moving through the hydraulic system of a valve body, there is no "fix" for a specific symptom without also rebuilding the entire transmission.

You have admittedly stated that you know very little about the inner workings of an automatic transmission, yet you want an expert to diagnose it without inspecting it? that's sort of like showing up at the Doctor's office and complaining of chest pain and expecting to hear them say "let's replace your pancreas".

Can it be saved? You bet. Find a reputable shop in your area and let that "expert" fix it. When you tell a mechanic who has gone through extensive training to be the qualified mechanic that they are, that "they don't know how to fix it" you are very likely insulting them. Expecting that individual to not be condescending at that point is sort of a losing proposition.

 

[Denisefwd93]

No I don't expect Diagnosis without them looking at it, what happens, I can't get that conversation started Because, they don't hear! Its called listening to the customer what I used to do in my business. Rebuild is the only word they seem to know around here. :

 

[redhurricane]

Diagnosis requires removal, and complete disassembly. By the time you have the labor into that, the actual parts cost is small. a rebuild kit with seals/bands/frictions/modulator is roughly $150 bucks. that won't include larger hard parts that may have failed, like a sprag, planetary, governor, etc.

The symptoms you have indicated would lead ME to recommend a full rebuild. Hard shifting is sometimes associated with a contaminated valve body or worn servos. Guess where those contaminants came from? The friction discs, reverse and OD bands, and copper thrust washers. You have all the "symptoms" of worn parts. Cleaning the valve body alone would not solve the issue, for long. contaminated fluid is in your torque converter as well, and replacement is wise.

repair is in fact a rebuild. If you don't want to spring for a rebuild, start looking for a trans shop in your area that offers rebuilt cores and you can do the removal/re-installation.

I have a handful of shops in my area that offer a rebuilt transmission, with new TC, for under $800 so long as you give them a buildable core in return.

 

[adsm08]

I'm with Red and the shops here.

You have listed several symptoms, each of which requires the trans be removed as part of the diagnosis. Furthermore each of your symptoms, except maybe the delayed reverse engagement, will require the trans to be torn down as one of the final stages. This is a lot of work to do just to have a look.

Additionally, once the trans is torn down to find and replace the worn or failed soft part there is no telling what hard parts may be found to have worn out. There is also a high likelyhood of finding other soft parts, such as clutches and seals, that while they have not failed yet they are close enough that its better to replace them now rather than put the trans back together with them, have it work for a few months, and then have them fail and have a mad customer.

In my professional opinion, with a transmission that old, with that many miles on it, there is a 100% chance that by the time they replace the parts that have failed to cause your symptom, replace the consequentials that were damaged as a result of the failed parts, and replace the stuff that is so worn out it isn't worth putting back in, the transmission will have been fully rebuilt.

Don't take this the wrong way, but we have a saying in the car repair business. The customer is always wrong.

When you are diagnosing a problem it is very important to listen to the customer because they can often provide valuable insights into duplicating the symptom which is critical to finding and fixing the problem. Now on the other side of that coin, these techs and shop managers/owners are not stupid. We don't build our businesses and make money by doing things half-assed and/or wrong. When you go to have a repair done it is just as important that you, as the customer, listen to them about the best way to perform the repair, and what all they need to do it. A good tech at a good shop is going to know what he is doing, and he is going to make sure his repairs are going to hold up. These guys have years of experience, and they know what does and doesn't work. They know already what they are going to find when they get in there and that by the time they are done making the estimate every part in the rebuild kit is going to be on it. I know you feel like you aren't being listened to, but from their perspective you are the one who isn't listening. There isn't anything to diagnose here.

Your shudder, if caused by the trans is the torque converter.
Delayed reverse engagement is a worn out band. Maybe it can be adjusted, maybe not. If the trans is gonna get opened up it might as well get replaced anyway.
Second gear slam might be a sticking valve, or it might be a worn clutch. If the clutch is worn fluid pressure will build up and move the plates until BANG, it grabs suddenly.
Same with first gear, although that is more likely a sticking valve since it's intermittent, and only on downshift.

Frankly, if you brought your truck to me, at my shop, I wouldn't even talk rebuild. I would read down your list of symptoms, turn around, walk over to the parts dept and price a reman without ever touching the vehicle. My reason? I already know your trans has multiple internal problems, which means it has to come out, and come apart, and I will end up pricing a full rebuild so it doesn't come back on me. By the time you add up the time to tear down the trans (not counting R+R since that has to happen either way), go through it, find the problems, and rebuild it, at our labor rates, you end up having the price of a factory reman, or more, every single time. Add to that the fact that if I rebuild your trans in the shop I give you a 12 month/12,000 mile warranty, but if I install a Ford factory reman unit you get a 3 year unlimited mile warranty on it, well the reman is the better deal.


Ultimately this is not about listening, or not, this is about the shop having enough experience and knowledge to know how to get you the best bang for the buck. You took it to them, presumably, because you think they know more about the situation than you do. They are trying to tell you what they do know, listen to what they are saying.

 

[Denisefwd93]

Thank you!
I just don't know why I can't have a conversation people in the manner you have replied here. 40+ years in HVAC contracting was based on communication, basically listening to the client which in my opinion is one of the best sales tools a person can use.

Carry in bench rebuilds around here go $1,200. I was quoted $2200 by a friend in my yacht club that manages an auto repair shop that also does transmissions but... I'm not allowed to talk to the transmission mechanic, go figure lol

I bought this truck cheap pretty much knew the transmission is on borrowed time. The 132,000 miles, and virtually no body rust is the real reason I bought such an old truck.

thank you gentlemen!

 

[redhurricane]

what's your location? Lancaster area or?

 

[redhurricane]

craigslist. Look for rebuilt ranger and explorer transmissions

bolt in
http://lancaster.craigslist.org/ptd/5213859287.html

http://lancaster.craigslist.org/pts/5159182774.html

 

[Denisefwd93]

Thank you for trying to help! I saw those and just this morning when I was looking on Craigslist, Lancaster is almost 2 hours west of me.
Going to be a tough decision stay with automatic or change over to manual, going to make that decision next week.

 

[BLOODBANE]

Not to mention the A4LD is not known for its longevity. If it has been over heated, or severely stressed you can bet a re-build/reman is in order. They seem to be a little hit and miss. I have 220,000+ on the one in my Explorer, but the first thing I did when I got it (used) was have the machine flush done (mine also has an external AT cooler on it). I dont necessarily beat on it, even wheeling. If your fluid is the slightest off color, get the machine flush done (it might last till you can get it rebuilt or a new one in)

 

[Denisefwd93]

I've pretty much decided to go for the manual change over. I'm talking with someone that is highly qualified and not terribly far from where I live. I just hope this trans can last until then!

 

[ghunt81]

You might also check ebay to see if any salvage yards are offering anything?

I bought a 5R55E from Spalding Salvage in Washington for $680 + $120 freight. I had to have it delivered to a place with a forklift since it was a freight shipment, but I'm sure you could work that out with somebody and they aren't heavy anyway.

My original trans was toast, this one was stated to have 45K, the leftover fluid that came out of it was bright red and looked great, and I've driven the truck around so it seems to be all good. They also give you a 6 month warranty if you have a mechanic install it, though I'm not sure how that works on a used transmission from a salvage yard on the other side of the country if it does go out.

EDIT: Just saw your post above. I considered swapping to manual myself but with the transmission and all the parts I would have been into it for more than the replacement transmission cost me.

 

[Denisefwd93]

You might also check ebay to see if any salvage yards are offering anything?

I bought a 5R55E from Spalding Salvage in Washington for $680 + $120 freight. I had to have it delivered to a place with a forklift since it was a freight shipment, but I'm sure you could work that out with somebody and they aren't heavy anyway.

My original trans was toast, this one was stated to have 45K, the leftover fluid that came out of it was bright red and looked great, and I've driven the truck around so it seems to be all good. They also give you a 6 month warranty if you have a mechanic install it, though I'm not sure how that works on a used transmission from a salvage yard on the other side of the country if it does go out.

EDIT: Just saw your post above. I considered swapping to manual myself but with the transmission and all the parts I would have been into it for more than the replacement transmission cost me.

Oh, there the plenty of used and "tested good" trans out there. I've just never cared for having automatics. and a truck like this really needs gears. Not that I'm going rock crawlin,g but I do want to try doing some beach running and maybe the pine barrens at some point. My hopeful plan was the back woods of Maine with my wooden canoes on top.

 

[Denisefwd93]

Making my decision this week. Just one more question.

What re-manufactured transmission builders have some of you used?

 

[ray41361]

I have a 97 ranger 4x4 automatic with 4.0 engine,I was hearing grinding noise sounded like drivers side near brake pedal,so put it on jacks and put it in drive without giving it any gas the speedo registered 50+mph in second gear it was 30mph and 20 mph in first gear this was without giving it any gas ,I tried the brakes and they had a hell of a time getting the wheels to slow down ,,before you ask in park the truck was idling at 800rpms what is the problem here