Could a little bit of coolant do this?!

[MorganMcCann]

My friend fixed this kid, Jim's coolant hose on a 2004 Grand Am 3.4L. When my friend changed the hose some coolant ran down the side of the block. About a week later he got a text from Jim saying that his head gasket blew and that my friend should be paying him 450$, which was half of the bill to fix it.

Now I have been around cars for a while and I don't see any probable way that a little bit of coolant could do this. Is there some strange circumstance that may have happened here?

The actual car is in alright shape with probably around 130,000 miles, with probably average to slightly below average maintenance. Jim doesn't know how to work on cars, or much about cars.

 

[adsm08]

1) The loss of a little coolant, or some spilled on the block is not going to pop a head gasket. In a GM the addition of an ethylene-glycol based coolant, or really anything other than Dexcool can cause bad things to happen. It is the chemical interaction between the organic components of Dex and the chemical components of glycol-based coolants.

2) How sure are they its a head gasket? Chevy engines rarely pop head gaskets. Intake gaskets go all the time and mix oil/coolant.

 

[MorganMcCann]

Jim took it to a shop and had the work done already. My friend cgot a text with a picture of the bill.

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

If facts are as stated, then tell them to pound sand.

 

[Mark_88]

I've only read of the horror stories of what using the wrong coolant can do but never heard of a head gasket being blown out because of contact...what do they think...that the head gasket doesn't come in contact with the coolant at any time?

Those holes in the gasket are to allow coolant to flow through the head...and the gasket is in there...so if it was going to self destruct it would be a huge mess anywhere coolant touched the gasket...

Bottom line...gaskets are made to resist the effects of coolant, gas, oil, as well as heat and whatever else that environment might throw at it...

I think the warning about coolant is more about what can happen to the rad and other metals in the cooling system....but I could be wrong...

 

[Tedybear]

As stated facts: No. Coolant drips will never cause a head gasket to blow.

Consider the space between the ports on a head gasket. Sometimes 1/4"...sometimes more or less. It takes a bit of time for even a pin hole leak in a head gasket to finally 'blow'.

NO. This head gasket was on it's way out for a while, and it's just coincidence that it blew out. If the other shop/mechanic is making a claim that a few drips of coolant caused a head gasket fail? Then I strongly suspect collusion on their part. I'd state "If you think drips of coolant caused the head gasket to fail? Then I'll see you in court". Then contact a few other techs in the area to back up the fact a dripping of coolant will never cause a blown head gasket.

I know of about a dozen mechanics and techs that would love to walk into court with you and slam dunk this case. It's people like that which gives this industry a bad reputation.

S-

 

[MorganMcCann]

That's what I have been thinking. I think Jim is just trying to get his car fixed on the cheap.

 

[RonD]

Jim most like really believes the previous work caused the head gasket damage, as said he doesn't work on cars or engines, so really only understands the "last person to work on it" rule.

"You replaced the fan belt and I got a flat tire, never had a flat tire before on this car until you worked on it"

As silly as this sounds that's how it works for a majority of people.
Any offered explanation of how a fan belt and tire can't be related will fall on deaf ears, to them it is just someone making up excuses because they F*ed up.


My first question of this specific issue would be why change the coolant, was it just due to be changed or was engine starting to over heat?
Maybe Jim wasn't up front with your friend about the overheating?

Having dealt with V6 Grand-ams I know it was originally a cast block with aluminum heads, bad combo with no ability to withstand even a little overheating, aluminum expands much faster than cast iron this caused "rubbing" of the head gasket each time engine was started and warmed up, and if it started to overheat the aluminum would expand even more and crush the head gasket.

If your friend didn't get the system refilled correctly causing the overheating then maybe that did lead to the head gasket issue, but that would be a long shot, and it would happen the next day of driving.

My best guess would be the head gasket was already going bad, small leak, causing intermittent rise and fall in temp gauge as air was pumped in and purged.
So Jim decided to get coolant changed to fix that issue.
It didn't fix it of course and head gasket leak just keep getting bigger until it was undriveable.

Now if your friend was hired to fix the overheating issue and didn't diagnose the small head gasket leak then that could be a slightly different story, BUT(big but), the liability wouldn't be for the cost of replacing the head gasket because if it was already "blown" then that repair cost was already a given, only liability would be recovery of cost for coolant change since that wasn't the actual problem and wouldn't be needed until after the head gasket repair.

 

[shadetreebronco]

This is why i don't let my kids fix their friends cars in my driveway.

 

[MorganMcCann]

Jim most like really believes the previous work caused the head gasket damage, as said he doesn't work on cars or engines, so really only understands the "last person to work on it" rule.

"You replaced the fan belt and I got a flat tire, never had a flat tire before on this car until you worked on it"

As silly as this sounds that's how it works for a majority of people.
Any offered explanation of how a fan belt and tire can't be related will fall on deaf ears, to them it is just someone making up excuses because they F*ed up.


My first question of this specific issue would be why change the coolant, was it just due to be changed or was engine starting to over heat?
Maybe Jim wasn't up front with your friend about the overheating?

Having dealt with V6 Grand-ams I know it was originally a cast block with aluminum heads, bad combo with no ability to withstand even a little overheating, aluminum expands much faster than cast iron this caused "rubbing" of the head gasket each time engine was started and warmed up, and if it started to overheat the aluminum would expand even more and crush the head gasket.

If your friend didn't get the system refilled correctly causing the overheating then maybe that did lead to the head gasket issue, but that would be a long shot, and it would happen the next day of driving.

My best guess would be the head gasket was already going bad, small leak, causing intermittent rise and fall in temp gauge as air was pumped in and purged.
So Jim decided to get coolant changed to fix that issue.
It didn't fix it of course and head gasket leak just keep getting bigger until it was undriveable.

Now if your friend was hired to fix the overheating issue and didn't diagnose the small head gasket leak then that could be a slightly different story, BUT(big but), the liability wouldn't be for the cost of replacing the head gasket because if it was already "blown" then that repair cost was already a given, only liability would be recovery of cost for coolant change since that wasn't the actual problem and wouldn't be needed until after the head gasket repair.

He changed a coolant hose, and when a bit dripped Jim claimed that is why his head gasket went.

Also, I guess he is going to give Jim 100-200$ just to shut him up, and to move on with it. Personally, I don't think he should be giving Jim one cent.

 

[Mark_88]

I would show him this thread...

Legal battles are always a pain so if he does decide to shut up the plaintive I would get a full release in writing...signed, dated, witnessed...just so there is no further extortion...

 

[jeremysdad]

GM 3.4s have air lock issues. There is a bleed valve in the metal heater line sonewhere. They won't burp like a ford, have to be bled. They will overheat and pop headgaskets. The motors in Cavaliers and Sunfires, too.

 

[scotts90ranger]

Not just those GM engines either... the 6.0L and it's variants (4.8L, 5.3L, 6.2L) as well as all the new direct injected engines... On the DI engines they specify only to fill with aid of a vacuum fill system (top off the system then this kit puts a vacuum in the system then sucks coolant in and repeat until full...)

I agree with the above, coincidence... it's a tough world nowadays...

 

[wildbill23c]

Hmm, I've spilled coolant before and its never caused a head gasket problem, killed a cat once that drank the coolant from the puddle on the ground that I didn't notice but haven't killed any head gaskets from dripping coolant...and lord knows how many times I've changed radiator, and heater hoses, and thermostats.

Head gasket was probably already blown in the first place and of course its always the last person that touched it fault. See and hear that type of stuff all the time. Also, not much of a friend at that point either LOL.

Sounds like a case of I want my vehicle fixed free and I'll screw everyone that touches it along the way out of a bunch of money, nevermind the car should have been in the scrap yard 10 years ago.

 

[MorganMcCann]

Hmm, I've spilled coolant before and its never caused a head gasket problem, killed a cat once that drank the coolant from the puddle on the ground that I didn't notice but haven't killed any head gaskets from dripping coolant...and lord knows how many times I've changed radiator, and heater hoses, and thermostats.

Head gasket was probably already blown in the first place and of course its always the last person that touched it fault. See and hear that type of stuff all the time. Also, not much of a friend at that point either LOL.

Sounds like a case of I want my vehicle fixed free and I'll screw everyone that touches it along the way out of a bunch of money, nevermind the car should have been in the scrap yard 10 years ago.

And we have a winner right here