clutch hydraulics issue

[scotts90ranger]

last weekend I was working on a '94 ranger with a M5OD, the clutch was toast, and the pedal felt more like a brake pedal than a clutch pedal, so we replaced the slave cylinder while we were in there, after reassembly and some gravity bleeding, it was tested and had nearly no pedal feel at all, super soft and wouldn't disengage fully, proceded to bleed the normal way and more gravity bleeding, so we got a new master cylinder, bench bled it and reassembled, same thing. by this time the whole weekend had gone by (well, all of the useful daylight part), and both of us were sore, tired and super frustrated (especially that getting the tranny in which should be the hard part was the easy part...)

the owner of the truck went to the clutch doctor or some other shop and they said the pilot bearing could be the problem, right now I'm thinking that's not it since the tranny went in on the first try, the bearing was still greasy, and it wasn't acting up before.

during the clutch replacement, the flywheel looked like new, no ridge what so ever so it wasn't replaced, pilot bearing wasn't either since it seemed in good shape, every other clutch component other than the hard line was replaced, including friction disk, pressure plate, throw out bearing, slave cylinder, and master cylinder

any ideas or assistance would be greatly appreciated!!!!!!!!!

also, anyone know the diameter of the pilot shaft on a M5OD for a 2.3L? in the off chance it does need replaced, I would like to be prepared with a dowl or piece of machined aluminum (have a lathe and plenty of round stock to turn down) to hydraulically remove it

 

[JRanger91]

I had a similar issue after I replaced my slave cylinder this fall. My master cylinder, only 6 or 7 months old, would not pump up when I bled the system. I took it in for a replacement, and the new one was doing the same thing. Well I got real pissed off and reefed up on the clutch pedal and almost pulled the pushrod right out of the master cylinder, sending the clip flying. It turned out that the diaphram (or whatever that part is that clips onto the end of the pushrod that forms the seal in the cylinder bore) was not clipped into the notch on the end of the pushrod, and when I reefed on the pedal, it snapped into place on the pushrod and has worked ever since.

 

[91exploreron37]

If that doesnt work, did you bench bleed the slave cylinder before you put it on? They cause alot of grief if not bled properly.

 

[michowski]

The master definatly has to be bench bled. I just went through this all with my ford dealer. You could also have a leak on the line that plugs into the slave. If you can take it into ford. After 2 months of on and off problems with my clutch I finally brought it in to them. They ended up having my truck for like 3 days, replaced the master because the pushrod in the master had a lot of flex and wasnt working right. It took em like 3 hours to fully bleed my system with everything on the truck. They said it was like a half hour to just bench bleed the master. Definatly a pain in the butt to get it working perfect. Best 300 bucks I spent lol.

 

[mkpecor]

keep on bleeding rangers are the hadest clutches to bleed,when i did mine i got pissed off so i called a round and no one wanted to do it,every shop said i did one before and ill never do one again so i was f...ed, i went out the next day and finnly got it ,it took 3 days. just keep on keepen on and you will get it..good luck!!!!!

 

[brendank]

First off, check for leaks at the slave, and at the junction where the slave clips into the hydraulic line.

There's a proper method to bleed the clutch, it's not some magic thing. You don't have to pull on it or gravity bleed it or change it out for another or blah blah blah insert dumb idea here....

The proper way:

1. Put the master in the truck after being bench bled. Hook up all the lines, but don't bolt it to the firewall or hook up the pedal

2. Make sure the reservoir is full, and tilt the master so that the part of it that is closest to the front of the truck is as high in the air as you can get it. The rear portion that you can see from in the cab should be down as far as possible.

3. Clamp a set of vice grips onto the rod, and have a second person firmly hold the master sturdy and at the desired angle from the engine compartment.

4. Get a third person to crawl under the truck and get him/her to follow proper bleed procedure while you manually pump the master cylinder. This should be just like bleeding the brakes. The second person, who is under the hood, should monitor the fluid level.

Using this method, it doesn't take more than a minute or two to see results. Get the third person to close the bleed valve, and then try to press the rod into the master cylinder. You'll be able to tell when its properly bled.

I've bled Ranger clutch systems at least 25 times using this method, and it's never failed to work.

 

[michowski]

First off, check for leaks at the slave, and at the junction where the slave clips into the hydraulic line.

There's a proper method to bleed the clutch, it's not some magic thing. You don't have to pull on it or gravity bleed it or change it out for another or blah blah blah insert dumb idea here....

The proper way:

1. Put the master in the truck after being bench bled. Hook up all the lines, but don't bolt it to the firewall or hook up the pedal

2. Make sure the reservoir is full, and tilt the master so that the part of it that is closest to the front of the truck is as high in the air as you can get it. The rear portion that you can see from in the cab should be down as far as possible.

3. Clamp a set of vice grips onto the rod, and have a second person firmly hold the master sturdy and at the desired angle from the engine compartment.

4. Get a third person to crawl under the truck and get him/her to follow proper bleed procedure while you manually pump the master cylinder. This should be just like bleeding the brakes. The second person, who is under the hood, should monitor the fluid level.

Using this method, it doesn't take more than a minute or two to see results. Get the third person to close the bleed valve, and then try to press the rod into the master cylinder. You'll be able to tell when its properly bled.

I've bled Ranger clutch systems at least 25 times using this method, and it's never failed to work.

Tried that for a good half day. Never worked lol

 

[brendank]

Tried that for a good half day. Never worked lol

So which do you think is more likely - That you missed something that was wrong/didn't follow the instructions properly, or that a time tested method that has been proven to work effectively actually doesn't work?

I know the answer.

 

[scotts90ranger]

turns out the issue was the pilot bearing, I guess ~70K miles of city driving in 15 years was tough on the thing... with the tranny out there were marks on the input shaft from the pilot bearing... put it back together and it worked fine...