boost but no power????

[bmxboy809]

I have been playing with my system for a few weeks now and thought it seemed like there was no power at all. well after a little investigating i found that wastegate actuator had fallen off because there was no clip to hold it on. so now its on, and the boost is there, rediculous amount in fact, but the truck has no power. It must not be matching the air with the correct amount of fuel. I know that the fuel pump can handle it but i think it must be a sensor. either the MAP or the O2 sensor. the O2 and VAM are brand new and im pretty sure they work. is there a test i can do on the MAP cuz its like $100 for a new one.

 

[BlackBII]

You have an AF ratio gauge?
Whats your fuel pressure at?
What kind of FPR do you have?
Any codes?

And how much boost are you running?

 

[Davis]

You know that on a VAM setup, the MAP (Manifold Absolute Pressure) becomes a BAP (Barometric Absolute Pressure), right? If it is hooked into vacuum, it will not run right.

 

[bmxboy809]

I do not have an A/F gauge. Fuel pressure is normal, 40psi and higher under boost, stock fpr, and have not yet checked the codes. I am running a stock setup other than a better cold air intake, cat only exhaust, and the new pump.

I was not aware of the MAP, BAP change tho... it has been hooked into vacuum like the MAP. this doesnt get hooked to anything? It has experienced vacuum and 10lbs of boost, could this have wrecked it?

 

[Davis]

No it shouldn't be damaged, just unhook it. The port that normally sees vacuum should just see atmospheric pressure.

 

[bmxboy809]

i removed the vacuum line but the situation has not improved. I also added a pyrometer and the exhaust is far too hot. +1300* under boost. I did some additional research and found this: MAF systems use only atmospheric pressure while speed density systems (i think the VAM is a speed density system) use both atmospheric pressure and manifold pressure. this would say that the vac line should be hooked up but Im not sure either way. I read that the ones that read only atmosphere have a white fitting on the end so lines cannot be hooked up. I read the trouble codes and i got a 22 (MAP/BP out of range) in the continuous memory. I also got a code for the tps. If the BAP is functioning correctly then could the tps cause all this by itself.

 

[Davis]

VAM is not MAF or SD really. It is a sort of cross between the two. If it were SD, yes you would need to have a sensor on the manifold pressure. VAM determines the density of the air and then the VAM determines the volumetric flow rate. Using these two properties, it can then calculate the mass flow rate and add the correct amount of fuel.

Ford's MAPs and BAPS are essentially the same internally.

TPS can make a difference, but it's generally not that big of a difference. At idle, TPS should read about .95 volts and should increase steadily to about 4 volts. There should be no dead spots.

A code 22 would make sense if you had it hooked to the manifold pressure. Clear codes or unhook the battery for about 5 minutes to clear the memory.

Have you verified base timing? Does it backfire at all, or stutter?

 

[bmxboy809]

I went and got the Barometric Pressure sensor last night because I traced the part number back to a MAP from a different year than what I was supposed to have. When i got the motor from the junk yard i know they sent a bunch of the wrong stuff so I think they grabbed a MAP off of a different 5.0 car.

I put the new BP sensor on but it didnt seem to make that big of a difference. I will test the TPS later today but i think that works ok. My friend brought up an interesting point yesterday though. Could it be the coolant temperature sensor? The EEC did not pass the self test because of coolant temp(switch i think not sensor) but I thought it was because the motor wasnt warmed up before we did the KOER test. Since I put the motor in the water temp gauge in the dash hasnt worked right. I just thought the sensor was different and thats why it wasnt working with the gauge. Could this be it? What is the coolant temp switch? thankyou for all the advice so far!

 

[bmxboy809]

alright i worked on it a little more...

I found a thread with the same title on Ford 2.3 forums and the guy seemed to have the same problem. he never posted if he resolved the issue or not but someone said the cam timing was off so i decided to check mine. I used the straight edge method because the plastic cover did not seem to match up correctly (are these junk?). I found the belt to be off by one tooth.

straight edge method says the cam mark must be on the line between the centers of the cam and auxilary gears and the crank pully mark should do the same right?

well thats the method i used. Then we adjusted the ignition timing and it seems to idle stronger but the exhaust is still far too hot. switching between the earlier mentioned MAP and BP sensors didnt seem to make too much difference. I am really at a loss here. Base timing is 10* and with the spout connected ~30-35* advanced. Also i am not using the idle speed controller... if that matters at all.

 

[AllanD]

i removed the vacuum line but the situation has not improved. I also added a pyrometer and the exhaust is far too hot. +1300* under boost. I did some additional research and found this: MAF systems use only atmospheric pressure while speed density systems (i think the VAM is a speed density system) use both atmospheric pressure and manifold pressure. this would say that the vac line should be hooked up but Im not sure either way. I read that the ones that read only atmosphere have a white fitting on the end so lines cannot be hooked up. I read the trouble codes and i got a 22 (MAP/BP out of range) in the continuous memory. I also got a code for the tps. If the BAP is functioning correctly then could the tps cause all this by itself.

High EGT suggests retarded cam timing.

The belt being a tooth off is a good possibility

How is the ignition advance set?

AD

 

[bmxboy809]

I think the belt is in the right place now but the boost is still not being matched with fuel. I'm not sure i understand your question about the ignition advance... We pulled the SPOUT connector out and set the base timming at 10* by adjusting the distributor. then put the SPOUT back in and the computer advanced the timing by about 20-25* so that it was 35* BTDC.

 

[bmxboy809]

ok I finally figured it out. As a last resort we tried unplugging the knock sensor. Ran much much better. The engine has always had a little bit of a clatter, which I thought was unrelated to the problem. Well now after beatin on it for a while the clatter got pretty bad. I believe the knock sensor was picking up this clatter and retarding the timing. So now I am going to pull the engine out and do a bottom end rebuild. does anyone know of a master rebuild kit or any place where I can find all of the parts I need? i checkek jegs and Summit but they dont have any kits for this.

 

[Yellowsplash]

It is common for a knock sensor to pick up valve train noise and lifter tick, but beware of unplugging this guy as he is the only thing from preventing you from blowing your motor.

Timing at idle and under vacuum is goin to be much different than under boost.

I dont know if you have a way to log your pulls or not, but under boost your timing should climb steadily without any pits or falls (this suggest detonation as shown by the decrease in timing). I would shoot for a curve that climbs steady from 3K to redline with no more than 20* timing at first. Tune around this and then you can make fine adjustments to your setup (increase boost, lean out AFR, ect). Just remember, moderate boost, more timing, and correct AFR will create more power > than more boost and the running rich with addtional fuel to keep from detonating while running less timing.

 

[bmxboy809]

ok thanks for the advice but I am sure it is picking up this clatter. It is something very wrong in the bottom end. I am going to pull the motor go through it. definately sounds like a bearing of some sort. has anyone done this before and knows of a good kit?

 

[necessaryevil]

need to get your self a wide band air fuel ratio guage, it sound like your running very lean have you done anything to your computer to make up for the increased air? remember when you add more air you have to add more fuel, if your computer is not programed for it then it dosent know what to do